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Author Topic: Pokerpops ponders poker  (Read 54651 times)
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pokerpops
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« on: February 23, 2012, 11:03:10 AM »

Yes, it"s another blog!

Somewhere to share my thoughts and experiences of poker. I"m a recreational poker player with a moderate amount of ability and a reasonably balanced view of how the game works. I try to improve and to increase my understanding of the techincalities of the game and I love live poker.

I posted this elsewhere, but having thought about a blog here for quite a while I decided to share it as my first substantive post.


I had a meeting in Newcastle yesterday that ended just after 2 so, having never played at Aspers Newcastle before I thought I"d give the 3pm tournament a whirl.
£10+£2 with one re-entry allowed, £500 guaranteed and when I joined it there were 19 runners - I"m thinking Top 3 paid and maybe £250 for 1st here...
By the time the second level ended there were about 30 entrants and with the re-entries added there were 47 stacks in play. OK, minimal overlay, but still, Top 4 paid, maybe Top 5, still a decent amount up top

Imagine my surprise when I saw the Prize Distribution on the screen and it showed prizes down to 10th
10th! and the prize for 10th? In a £10+£2 tournament in which over half the field had a re-entry?
£10
Same for 9th too
1st was now £170 - 34% of the pot in a 30 runner tournament...

Want to know what capped off my bemusement?

When we got to the final table bubble, with 10th place being worth £10 remember, there was a clamour from most of the players for a "saver"...
Snap refused to even consider it, despite the whining from the other table about "how much quicker we"ll get to the final table"

Then!!!
The top prize was reduced by another £20 "for the valets". Now they"d been pretty good, and I never begrudge a tip to those who get paid minimum wage and work hard, but we were coerced into this and that never sits well. I suggested that 9th and 10th place should pay the tip but that didn"t seem a popular idea with Mr Whineabout the bubble payment so went along with the "off the top" suggestion.

What makes this all even more amusing/bemusing is that even with a payout structure that paid £10 for 10th and £40 for 4th people were openly laddering (or really not very aware of how to play poker...)
Limping in utg at 1500/3000 from a 10k stack and then folding to a raise was a favourite move
Limping utg at 800/1600 with A6 off and calling a raise to 3400 from a 20k stack then jamming a flop which was AK5 two spades... yes, he won that pot vs my A4ss but he got it in with a 22% chance of that and virtually no equity against my range to call. (50p set aside for this)

That hand, plus a couple of compulsory calls of shortstack shoves that didn"t work out led to my falling from chipleader (+25% of chips in play at the start of the FT, slightly more at the start of the hand) to an exit in 4th, for the lifechanging sum of £40

I queried the payouts with the cardroom staff and apparently they are as they are because when they were set at 10% of the field +1 the regulars complained and the game got less runners...
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Zozzy
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 13:26:46 PM »

Hello David
This is a typical recreational game and should be treated as such. It costs a tenner as you say, so people could be there for the first time to learn the game after watching poker on telly for example, or they could be simply choosing to play instead of going to the boozer or bookies on a wednesday afternoon.
If you are there to try and win and make money (and so you should) then your approach needs to be different than if you were sitting down at a £100+ buy-in.
Your opponent"s general play which you describe are to be expected, this is what the poker coaches describe as Level 1 thinking, which is basically playing the strength of their own cards. You recognise the fundamental mistakes and I would presume you to be Level 2 / Level 3 thinking.
Instead of being critical of your opponent"s play, adjust your strategy
A standard 2 1/2bb - 3bb raise at this type of game could often get four or five callers (fish) with any two cards , so make them pay for attempting the badbeat and raise 4X or 5X. Level 1 thinkers don"t recognise this as abnormal.
Also tighten up your starting hand range. At this standard of tourney you can sit there for half an hour without playing a hand and suddenly raise in EP. Players won"t label you as tight or LAG so you don"t have that constant battle at the table as to what image you have, adjusting to their perception of you etc. etc. as is normal in the higher stakes tournaments.

Be a Fish! (this doesn"t sound like professional advice  Smiley )
What I am really saying is that you have big implied odds at this level. Bet sizing is a common mistake at lower limit buy-ins. Take advantage of this when an opponent min raises with his premium hand. It is common to see very small initial bets on the flop and turn compared to the pot size. Take advantage of this, you could hit your miracle gutshot to the nuts cheap, and these same players will call massive overbets on the river.
Novice players find it hard to lay down AA ,  KK for example.

Position is just as important as always.

The above advice if applied to a standard £100 buy-in event is nonsense. If you are up against thinking players then standard raises generally mean what they say. Also The metagame becomes important

When someone is starting out it is easy to pick up bad habits playing in these types of games and moving up to a standard game with a bigger buy-in is often difficult at first.

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PHIL_TC
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 13:29:36 PM »


Be a Fish! (this doesn"t sound like professional advice  Smiley )


Please don"t encourage him  Wink

Nice to see the starting up a blog Dave... will see you later this evening although we maybe slightly inebriated by then x
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pokerpops
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 13:44:04 PM »



Be a Fish! (this doesn"t sound like professional advice  Smiley )


Please don"t encourage him  Wink

Nice to see the starting up a blog Dave... will see you later this evening although we maybe slightly inebriated by then x


I"m swerving the mayhem tonight Phil - I"ll read about it in Stu"s blog first thing Friday  Wink
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Zozzy
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 13:53:41 PM »

Sorry for getting carried away with my long winded reply  Embarrassed  My passion for poker runs away with me sometimes.

Great to see your Blog start. It is good to read experiences Dave
And Phil we have something in common I am meeting a couple of mates this afternoon and there is a strong possibility of ending up slightly inebriated  Smiley
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pokerpops
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 13:58:31 PM »

Zozzy, thanks for reading and for the advice.

My main thrust in creating and posting a pretty toned down version of the rant that occurred in my inner monologue was the extended payout list, the fact that there was a constant whine about the bubble payment until I burst it with the mighty   >>    Grin oh and the £20 for the valets which should have come from the bottom of the prize list not the top.

I mega-adjusted towards the fishy end of the spectrum earlier and managed to lose my first stack through a raise from ep with   , got two callers and my c-bet on   flop met with not one, but two all-ins.
Placing them firmly in the flush draw and straight draw camps I called confidently like a fule to see     and     tabled

"CHIPS PLEASE!"

The play I mentioned was at the Final Table where one would hope the standard might just have improved a little...
I don"t mind it, indeed I don"t, but I swear if the guy that kept limp folding from his 4BB stack had done it once more I"d have slapped him.
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PHIL_TC
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 14:07:29 PM »


I"m swerving the mayhem tonight Phil - I"ll read about it in Stu"s blog first thing Friday  Wink


Probably a wise move... btw played the cash game at G after passing you on the way out. Sat down (wrongly) with only £40 into the BB. Get dealt pocket aces. UTG limps 50p.. small blind makes up. I raise to £5.50. UTG and SB call. FML.

UTG has 9/10 off calls my bets all the way down to the river to finally hit a straight. GG me. Was told after that I should of raised more pre. Seeing the play I don"t think it would of made any difference.. think if we end up there later it will be shove or fold mode for me Sad

Zozzy.. good man Smiley beer is always the answer
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pokerpops
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 22:29:06 PM »



I"m swerving the mayhem tonight Phil - I"ll read about it in Stu"s blog first thing Friday  Wink


Probably a wise move... btw played the cash game at G after passing you on the way out. Sat down (wrongly) with only £40 into the BB. Get dealt pocket aces. UTG limps 50p.. small blind makes up. I raise to £5.50. UTG and SB call. FML.

UTG has 9/10 off calls my bets all the way down to the river to finally hit a straight. GG me. Was told after that I should of raised more pre. Seeing the play I don"t think it would of made any difference.. think if we end up there later it will be shove or fold mode for me Sad

Zozzy.. good man Smiley beer is always the answer



Bet £15-£18 on any board that isn"t paired and get the rest in on a safe looking turn. You may still get called, but if you started with £40 you shouldn"t have anything left to bet on the river...
This is why sitting with £40 is an issue.

I had disappointing news at G on Tuesday. They"ve been letting me convert my "PlayPoints" at 100=£1 and use them as buyin for tournaments. Great value given that 100=50p in food and drink.
They"ve now realised that I should only be using them for Reg Fees... sigh
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pokerpops
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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 14:45:10 PM »

Can"t resist posting this...

Freeroll on DTD for the Devilfish satellites - if you don"t already know, they are running an 8-man £1,000 buy in SnG at DTD this saturday featurin Devilfish, Rob Yong, Simon Trumper and five satellite qualifiers.

I"ve been survivng on crumbs for a while - lost A10
then this happens...

http://www.holdemmanager.net
NL Holdem $800(BB) Boss Game#2834783139

mack28 ($7,661)
david ($7,658)
ziuga ($11,624)
noggin111 ($13,269)
Top4Aces ($17,788)

Top4Aces antes $100
mack28 antes $100
david antes $100
ziuga antes $100
noggin111 antes $100
mack28 posts (SB) $400
david posts (BB) $800

Dealt to david    
fold,
noggin111 raises to $3,200
fold, fold,
david raises to $7,558 (AI)
noggin111 calls $4,358
FLOP ($16,016)    Th  
TURN ($16,016)    Th    
RIVER ($16,016)    Th      
david shows    
(Pre 63%, Flop 4.0%, Turn 9.1%)

noggin111 shows    
(Pre 37%, Flop 96.0%, Turn 90.9%)

noggin111 wins $16,016
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Swinebag
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« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 23:29:26 PM »

i dont get it??


you lost an allin when a marginal favourite

ul??
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pokerpops
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« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 23:39:44 PM »


i dont get it??


you lost an allin when a marginal favourite

ul??



Thanks for dropping by, don"t let the door hit you on the way out.
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Swinebag
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« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 23:49:28 PM »



i dont get it??


you lost an allin when a marginal favourite

ul??



Thanks for dropping by, don"t let the door hit you on the way out.


hahaha
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Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
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You are a genius Rob  Cheesy
pokerpops
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 08:05:11 AM »

My maternal Grandmother was a wise woman. She was born around 1900 and lived through two world wars a depression and all the rest in between. She had a shop, and sold pretty much anything and everything. To everyone.
Like most small shopkeepers of the day she had a little brown book to record purchases on credit, or "tick". She knew everyone in the area, and knew their stories. She knew their good points and their bad.
But she never ever uttered a word against anyone. Her mantra was " if you can"t say something positive, say nothing".
Now, that may not be a fashionable stance these days, but it"s one that I"ve tried to follow. The world would maybe be a better, friendlier place if others took the same approach.
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samuel_9
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 09:19:58 AM »

this is just from reading this thats all just reading it ....I think divad is in a very bad mood cus some plunker called his rase with .....waiter for it//////63 yes u heard it rite 63 and they where DIMONDS/must have been a WOMEN cos dimonds r a girls best friend///o i for got did i tell u she won with 6 3 OF DIMONDS YEHA YES YES YES GET IN THERE
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pokerpops
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 10:18:05 AM »


this is just from reading this thats all just reading it ....I think divad is in a very bad mood cus some plunker called his rase with .....waiter for it//////63 yes u heard it rite 63 and they where DIMONDS/must have been a WOMEN cos dimonds r a girls best friend///o i for got did i tell u she won with 6 3 OF DIMONDS YEHA YES YES YES GET IN THERE


thanks Samuel - although to be honest, my mood was at worst sanguine about the the hand I posted. It amused me firstly because when I shoved I was expecting to have "live cards" and maybe a 40% chance of the pot, and not the 60% I saw I had when the cards were revealed. My amusement increased when the threes arrived.

I try not to get into bad moods about poker beats. I give them out, I suffer them. They are what they are and that is a part of poker.

well, another day another 50p.

Tonight is the Stockton Home Game - tenner in (x2 if you bust in the first hour as I often do) and played for Sh**s n Giggles. I"m looking forward to the craic and the banter and a chance to reassert my dominance at a game of true skill.

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