Help - Cash Hand that I murdered? Can't get my head round the play.

[poker_jason]

Okay - help please. I'm pretty sure I murdered this - but would like your thoughts on how it played out.
 
Hand is at end of a long day, Post is at the end of a long week. Sorry if the whole lot is unreadable.
 
Set up.
Effective Stacks and stakes Me: 270 Euro. Villain ~300-350 Euro. 2Euro SB and BB.
 9/10 Handed. Button Me / Villain BB.

Villian - Loose and Aggresive. Bets weak/Marginal/drawing Hands weakly 12-16 Euro on flop, Turn & River. Bets bigger with strong/made hands and Bluffs. Probably one of the better players at the table.
 
2 limpers (Both awful) to Button (Me) raise to 22Euro with AJ suited. BB (villain calls) as does one of the limpers (who I'll call snapper).
 
AQ+/1010+ are not really in either players range here as both would have re-raise pre.
 
Flop KH J 10H. If villain bets small I'm calling or raising depending on bet size and snapper's response. Checks round to me which seemed slightly odd given the table dynamics and history. Snapper likes to shove on Flop/Turn with marginal/losing and drawing hands.
 
Usually I bet out here but decided to check as my image is super duper tight and I fold out when ahead and get called/raised when way behind. Also Villian will view my check as a complete miss and bluff turn and/or river but never call a flop bet without a strong hand or draw.
 

Also this is a pretty coordinated flop which I am a marginally ahead some of the time but could be way behind on turn or river. I also don't have a heart. Although I'm pretty certain that snapper and villian also don't have two hearts as villian would lead with a smallish bet and Snapper would shove/make a large bet.
 
Turn is the J hearts.

Villain leads for 40 Euro and Snapper Folds (as I thought he would to any bet after flop check).
 
I call - mainly due to Villians bet size. given my previous read - the line he took on this hand was either a made hand (some of which I beat) or a bluff, possibly with a back door heart. Having bet the Turn for 40Euro, I'm expecting villian to river bet 70+ Euro (80~90E to be precise).
 
Villian bets 32 Euro on River 7 Diamonds???

WTF? Is this a blocking bet? Trying to Induce a shove? Marginal Value?

Okay, rip apart as played?

All thoughts appreciated.

I'll post 2nd part later after replies.

[Swinebag22]

just call this off. You haven't shown any strength post flop so there is a whole host of hands he bets for value that you beat.

[sharplea]

Call.

No value in raising and our hand is too strong to fold.

[noble1]

Flop KH J 10H. If villain bets small I'm calling or raising depending on bet size and snapper's response. Checks round to me which seemed slightly odd given the table dynamics and history. Snapper likes to shove on Flop/Turn with marginal/losing and drawing hands.
 
Usually I bet out here but decided to check as my image is super duper tight and I fold out when ahead and get called/raised when way behind. Also Villian will view my check as a complete miss and bluff turn and/or river but never call a flop bet without a strong hand or draw.
 

Also this is a pretty coordinated flop which I am a marginally ahead some of the time but could be way behind on turn or river. I also don't have a heart. Although I'm pretty certain that snapper and villian also don't have two hearts as villian would lead with a smallish bet and Snapper would shove/make a large bet.

i think u make a mistake checking back the flop here, to a half decent opponent at these stakes i dont think they will expect u to check back strong or air hands in this spot/flop texture all that often..  bet and give yourself a chance to make more effective bluffs or value bets on the turn/river...
i'd only check back here if one of these opponent's is check raising a rather insane amount of the time

as played call river and win or lose at least u'll get an insight into how villain is thinking...

[noble1]

have a look at the reg's mindset....

[AAroddersAA]

Jason, I am assuming this is live mate, tell us if not as it makes a difference.

My first reaction is the PFR is too big. €12 seems enough. 3 way to the flop with a pot of €68 by my calculation and you have position.

I definitely think the check on the flop is OK. The hand is not that strong at this point and the way you have described the villian's you probably get called or raised and either fold or end up in a bigger pot with a very marginal hand.

Turn is a good card for us but still does not make our hand great, it is good though. Given the bet size and read on the bettor I also like your call on the turn, it makes good use of position. His bet represents slightly more strength as he has bet into two of you but looking at what beats you:-

I am guessing KJ is in his range, although he really should be betting the flop with that (maybe he was trying to check raise). JT is also possible but either of these hands are just a cooler anyway. We don't think he has AQ or a set as he would have 3-bet them pre. Given that we think he bets strong with a made hand and weak with a poor hand. The bet size polarises him to a FH or a bluff imo, I am calling the turn here as I just feel the bluff is more likely as KJ really should bet the flop so the only hands we SHOULD lose too are KJ or JT.

River changes nothing as far as I can see (if he bluffed the turn with 77, well what you gonna do). His bet is weak, either milking us or is a blocker bet, it's an easy call for me.

Sometime you are going to get shown a full house but it does not mean that you played the hand wrong, you just ran into the top of his range. I think the hand was played fine. I would have raised smaller preflop and kept the pot smaller as our hand is fairly marginal all the way through but it does not really change the way the hand is played out.

[poker_jason]

Dear all,

Thanks for your comments. Managed to delete my first response here so leaving out early commentary.

AA - Definately live - and crazy bad players.

Now part two.

I call, and Villian shows QH 9D for flopped Straight.

I've tried playing it back and I've got no idea if I played this well or really badly on each street. The pre flop raise was standard to isolate one of the limpers. The flop check - hmm I see both arguments here? The turn I don't think I can fold ever against this Villian? I think my reasoning for not raising is fairly sound? The river bet was not what I was expecting so I was wary but cannot fold for 34Euro as I now beat most hands in his range that bets here?
 
Did I lose the Minimum?

From Villians perspective - does he play it really well? I think he loses value from me by checking the flop (although I think the check is perfect here given Snappers tendency to shove). The river bet costs him as I'm probably calling more than 32 Euro? Is Villian concerned that I have a monster? Inducing a shove?
 
How do you play this if you are villian?

[poker_jason]

Interesting video. Not sure which of the lines I was taking on the flop - probably bluff catching.

I'm such a fish..... 

Had the BB made a smallish bet on the flop/turn with his made hand I probably would have made a very significant raise.......

[noble1]

http://mag.bluffmagazine.com/try-a-new-bait-on-the-fish-930/

http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/Balbomb/1/
he used to play on FTP before the BF farce as U2killers and u might get some insight/ideas reading his blog...


the whole point of betting a flop texture like this when u have position is so long term both your strong and weak hands will be disguised... and yes do it even against bad players because they will call with worse on this texture and if u have good reads u may even get them to raise worse as well... checking back in position on these textures with the initiative has more negatives than positives imho..

Is Villian concerned that I have a monster?

most probably... although if he can hand read to a competent std then NO....