Author Topic: Season 12 early suggestions  (Read 2020 times)

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nosey-p

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Season 12 early suggestions
« on: March 28, 2018, 22:33:20 PM »
Early suggestions for season 12   

This comes up every year but I think now is the time to increase the buy-in to £110 (£100 + £10). Since we started the buy-in has been the same so in reality the price is cheaper now then 12 years ago. I know the counter argument is that we are Amateur and making it £110 may push people away and if you come as a couple then it's a double rise. There are plenty of casino games now that offer this kind of game most months for the same buy-in with 10k/20k pay outs so don't think it will hurt us in turn out. The extra £2.50 for Grosvenor will keep them happy as there costs go up, which make them more likely keep sponsoring us. Alternatively we could make it £100 buy-in (£90 + £10). Another argument will be what do we make the main event at the world's if we have a £110, I say why does it have to be different; we already have a High buy-in £220.   
 
Is it time to increase the starting stack to 20k? We all need to get home on a Sunday at a reasonable time but this will only effect the final table if the increase effects the running time. May be drop the 45 minutes to 40 minutes and/or miss a level out (first level or 100/200 25 ante) I'm no guru when it comes to this so others will probable tell us the pro's and con's of this and why it's a bad or good idea. .   

For some time now, the first thing I look for when the new season is announced is the team event. I think it's the best event and with the amount of teams we get entering show's that everyone else thinks the same. This event is heavily advertised/promoted as a “Team Game/Tournament” but the payout is 50/50 I think this needs to be looked at. This game is played total different to any other game, (If you are playing as team player) You sacrifice your own game for the good of your team in doing this you are probably saying good bye to any individual glory. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a individual element to the game, it has to have this for the game to come to a conclusion without everyone just going all in for the sake of it knowing that there team are already out.

The winners of all the main events get added value in a way of a £550 seat, the team event winner also gets a £550 seat, the team winners get zero. I'm not saying that the 8 winners should get a £550 seat (not enough sponsorship to go around) but they has to be some kind of added value like a £110 token or the £550 can go to the team to do with as they see fit. The payout should be more one sided in favourer to the team 60/40.   THIS IS A TEAM EVENT, THE TEAM SHOULD GET REWARDED

Played a few games when button pays the ante and got to say I like it, can only see this being the norm in the future   

Just my thoughts 

Fatcatstu

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2018, 23:19:30 PM »
Absolutely against raising the buyin for the main events. For the reasons you stated, keep it affordable to most, just because you (or others, not a personal attack!) can afford it, doesn't mean most can.

I like the idea of raising the starting stack, but the levels would need to be adjusted accordingly, and I'm 8 pints deep in a restaurant in Florida (thin) so can't think about that at the minute!

Button Antes for EVERY main event next season is a must for me, if it's good enough for most of the main tours now, I'm sure it's good enough for us roflers. People know my thoughts on this by now though!!

I haven't attended enough events this season (naughty stu) to really comment further.

Look forward to seeing people's thoughts tho, should be some great debate going forward!
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IrishTom

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2018, 23:21:38 PM »
Nice one Wayne... always willing to listen to suggestions for improvement... with no promises of course :)

And yes, Season 12 planning has commenced... so get your thoughts/suggestions made public now...

EDIT: oh hell I opened a can of worms there!  No... Season 12 will NOT be announced before or during WCOAP... I suspect mid to late April...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 23:38:38 PM by IrishTom »
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Matt D

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2018, 23:28:10 PM »
Good suggestions. I like the idea of 110 buyin for the reasons you state.

For the team game I think that'a a good idea too. But... how would it affect those who have nothing to play for? There's no difference really between 31st and 32nd team-wise, but whilst an individual can still win they'll be playing "properly". Without that element they could go crazy "all in every hand" or whatever and ruin the dynamic?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 12:19:02 PM by Matt D »
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BOINGBLITZ

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2018, 01:29:29 AM »
Great post Wayne.

While in discussion with a fellow APATer in the Walsall 25/25 the other week, the subject of the APAT Team event came up.
Every year teams miss out on this due to capacity.
Would it be possible to hire the parts of the Ricoh used by Goliath and stage the team event there?
That way, anyone who wanted to enter could do so.

Also, please keep the WCOAP as you have done this year, in that you START at Easter and not end at Easter. That way, those of us who wish to remain married, can do so :)
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koyte

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2018, 06:57:50 AM »
Hi people is it possible to have a game in newcastle this season, also regarding the team game think the people returning on sunday or last 50/60 should be the points winners,not half the field , to have the game won so early takes away a lot of the excitement in the closing stages and keeps people hanging around for longer.
keep up the good work,stay true no rebuys no re-entries

pokerpops

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2018, 14:46:38 PM »
Hi people is it possible to have a game in the North-East this season, also regarding the team game think the people returning on sunday or last 50/60 should be the points winners,not half the field , to have the game won so early takes away a lot of the excitement in the closing stages and keeps people hanging around for longer.
keep up the good work,stay true no rebuys no re-entries

Fixed your post :)
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Fluence

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2018, 14:49:16 PM »
My minor thoughts:

On the "raising the buy in" in all honesty the cost of travel, hotels, food etc etc makes more difference to me than the actual buy in price. That's why I didn't travel to Edinburgh this year, so changing the buy in to £110 wouldn't make too much difference to me.

I wonder though if once it gets to £110 (or more) that it might get a bit too serious and take some of the fun out of APAT's?

On button antes I say YES!


My major thought:

On stacks yes I think 20k starting stack is a must. 15k seems like a short stack these days as every local £30 comp I play these days has 20k or more as a starting stack.

What I would prefer though is we keep all the current levels (the structure is fantastic imo) but reduce the clock on day 1.

I have always felt that we don't play enough levels on day 1 so I would prefer as a suggestion.

  4 x 30 minutes
  8 x 40 minutes

This would mean only an extra 35 mins of total playing time but we would have advanced the clock 3 levels. (Day two clock as now 45 mins)

This way we'd play 12 levels day 1 and start day 2 at 1000/2000/300 instead of starting day 2 at 500/1000/100

I feel this would make up for the extra chips and thin the field a bit so day 2 is not so long.

You could still have 3 breaks if we did it as;

  4 x 30 minutes (Break)

  3 x 40 minutes (Break)

  3 x 40 minutes (Break)

  2 x 40 minutes (End of day)  
 

Anyway my 2p's worth. I'm sure I'll still turn up whatever is decided!

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shug

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2018, 14:22:46 PM »
My minor thoughts:

On the "raising the buy in" in all honesty the cost of travel, hotels, food etc etc makes more difference to me than the actual buy in price. That's why I didn't travel to Edinburgh this year, so changing the buy in to £110 wouldn't make too much difference to me.

I wonder though if once it gets to £110 (or more) that it might get a bit too serious and take some of the fun out of APAT's?

On button antes I say YES!

Totally agree with this but it affects me the other way around. I have to pay travel and accommodation costs for every event, that far outweighs to buy-in, not just Edinburgh. A rise in the buy-in has the least effect in my taking part. It was very noticeable that many regulars were not in Dublin or Edinburgh. That suggests it's travel and accommodation not buy-in that determines participation.
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ayresi

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2018, 23:16:53 PM »
Hi people is it possible to have a game in the North-East this season, also regarding the team game think the people returning on sunday or last 50/60 should be the points winners,not half the field , to have the game won so early takes away a lot of the excitement in the closing stages and keeps people hanging around for longer.
keep up the good work,stay true no rebuys no re-entries

Fixed your post :)
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CW86

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 07:36:39 AM »
My minor thoughts:

On the "raising the buy in" in all honesty the cost of travel, hotels, food etc etc makes more difference to me than the actual buy in price. That's why I didn't travel to Edinburgh this year, so changing the buy in to £110 wouldn't make too much difference to me.

I wonder though if once it gets to £110 (or more) that it might get a bit too serious and take some of the fun out of APAT's?

On button antes I say YES!

Totally agree with this but it affects me the other way around. I have to pay travel and accommodation costs for every event, that far outweighs to buy-in, not just Edinburgh. A rise in the buy-in has the least effect in my taking part. It was very noticeable that many regulars were not in Dublin or Edinburgh. That suggests it's travel and accommodation not buy-in that determines participation.

This
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KarmaDope

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 09:54:01 AM »
If it's travel and accommodation that drives us then maybe we should have all the events in the cheapest place...Blackpool?! :D

On a more serious matter I'm against the change to increased buy in. A lot of the regs can afford this raise but it's always been a selling point for recs that APAT offers the best structured 2 day comp for less than a hundred quid. Plus if the buy in for main events is £110, what's the ME buy in for WCOAP, £150?

I'm heading out now so will come back and post more on this later.
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nosey-p

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 12:04:26 PM »
If it's travel and accommodation that drives us then maybe we should have all the events in the cheapest place...Blackpool?! :D

On a more serious matter I'm against the change to increased buy in. A lot of the regs can afford this raise but it's always been a selling point for recs that APAT offers the best structured 2 day comp for less than a hundred quid. Plus if the buy in for main events is £110, what's the ME buy in for WCOAP, £150?

I'm heading out now so will come back and post more on this later.

Why does the main event at the WCOAP have to be different? we already have a £220 buy-in

The equivalent to £75 in 2005 would be £109 today so it be wont be an increase as such just keeping up with inflation   

KarmaDope

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2018, 14:55:41 PM »
If it's travel and accommodation that drives us then maybe we should have all the events in the cheapest place...Blackpool?! :D

On a more serious matter I'm against the change to increased buy in. A lot of the regs can afford this raise but it's always been a selling point for recs that APAT offers the best structured 2 day comp for less than a hundred quid. Plus if the buy in for main events is £110, what's the ME buy in for WCOAP, £150?

I'm heading out now so will come back and post more on this later.

Why does the main event at the WCOAP have to be different? we already have a £220 buy-in

The equivalent to £75 in 2005 would be £109 today so it be wont be an increase as such just keeping up with inflation  

Erm...because it's marketed as the Main Event. Just like the WSOP Main Event is more expensive than their Circuit events which run year round.

The Championship events are £75 and the side events are ~£35/40 depending on which season it is. The WCOAP is £110 and the side events are £55, just like the WSOP where they have a range of buyins for the side events but the World Championship events are $10k, but at their Circuit events (ring, not bracelet for the winner), generally the sides are $365 and the main is $1,675.

Obviously APAT don't use the same ratio for the buy in difference here but you could make a decent comparison towards the APAT Championship events being like the WSOP Circuit events, and the WCOAP being like the WSOP.  

However, my main argument against it is quite simple, if we go up to £100 + rake, we're then competing with the likes of the Goliath/DTD etc. Never going to win that battle at all. Also, for recreational players who play local comps down the Genting/G, it's not that much of a jump up from £56 to £82.50, but if they go home and tell their partner that the APAT comp is now OVER a hundred quid...that three figure number is still a big hurdle in recreational poker.

To be honest I think APAT's lost a bit of what it was about. It's become a lot more serious than it was and a lot of recs who play 20 quid buy in's down the pub/in the casino play one APAT, find the standard too high and give up. It's a victim of it's own success, in a way. All the guys who played 10 years ago are still here, and most of them are a lot better now than they were back then, but are quite comfortable to stay at this level. The only spot on the calendar I find is like it was is the Forum Team Event, and that's because everyone approaches the weekend differently.

I'm really not explaining myself very well here, but I'll try and get up to Manchester over the week and grab a drink with anyone who wants to discuss!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 15:03:32 PM by KarmaDope »
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IrishTom

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Re: Season 12 early suggestions
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2018, 17:32:28 PM »
If it's travel and accommodation that drives us then maybe we should have all the events in the cheapest place...Blackpool?! :D

On a more serious matter I'm against the change to increased buy in. A lot of the regs can afford this raise but it's always been a selling point for recs that APAT offers the best structured 2 day comp for less than a hundred quid. Plus if the buy in for main events is £110, what's the ME buy in for WCOAP, £150?

I'm heading out now so will come back and post more on this later.

Why does the main event at the WCOAP have to be different? we already have a £220 buy-in

The equivalent to £75 in 2005 would be £109 today so it be wont be an increase as such just keeping up with inflation   

Erm...because it's marketed as the Main Event. Just like the WSOP Main Event is more expensive than their Circuit events which run year round.

The Championship events are £75 and the side events are ~£35/40 depending on which season it is. The WCOAP is £110 and the side events are £55, just like the WSOP where they have a range of buyins for the side events but the World Championship events are $10k, but at their Circuit events (ring, not bracelet for the winner), generally the sides are $365 and the main is $1,675.

Obviously APAT don't use the same ratio for the buy in difference here but you could make a decent comparison towards the APAT Championship events being like the WSOP Circuit events, and the WCOAP being like the WSOP. 

However, my main argument against it is quite simple, if we go up to £100 + rake, we're then competing with the likes of the Goliath/DTD etc. Never going to win that battle at all. Also, for recreational players who play local comps down the Genting/G, it's not that much of a jump up from £56 to £82.50, but if they go home and tell their partner that the APAT comp is now OVER a hundred quid...that three figure number is still a big hurdle in recreational poker.

To be honest I think APAT's lost a bit of what it was about. It's become a lot more serious than it was and a lot of recs who play 20 quid buy in's down the pub/in the casino play one APAT, find the standard too high and give up. It's a victim of it's own success, in a way. All the guys who played 10 years ago are still here, and most of them are a lot better now than they were back then, but are quite comfortable to stay at this level. The only spot on the calendar I find is like it was is the Forum Team Event, and that's because everyone approaches the weekend differently.

I'm really not explaining myself very well here, but I'll try and get up to Manchester over the week and grab a drink with anyone who wants to discuss!

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