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Flush draw (too passive ??)

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Erimus:
10k gteed Stars $33, 15 left i have 51 bigs villain just come to the table no hands on him, questions are

1) Is 3 bet too small ? if so how much do you 3 bet here or is flatting an option ?

2) After flop should i lead out here or take the free card after villain has checked ?

I bet 12k into 25k pot on the turn, again too small or would you bet bigger ?

The river bricked here for me, he lead out, i folded, is K high any good here do you think ? looking at board and without any info fairly sure he has A high hand and could of easily connected with this board, had 40 bigs left so thought the fold was the better option.

pokerStars Hand #75631390275: Tournament #560010193, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (1000/2000) - 2012/02/24 13:54:59
Table "560010193 19" 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: cohen8 (70836 in chips)
Seat 2: ship"em84 (73545 in chips)
Seat 3: Starshii (60708 in chips)
Seat 4: vvbunde (89052 in chips)
Seat 5: erimus14 (103356 in chips)
Seat 6: brdave (69468 in chips)
Seat 7: aJarov (28056 in chips)
Seat 8: b&mAKQJA (78180 in chips)
Seat 9: kalimist (89726 in chips)
cohen8: posts the ante 200
ship"em84: posts the ante 200
Starshii: posts the ante 200
vvbunde: posts the ante 200
erimus14: posts the ante 200
brdave: posts the ante 200
aJarov: posts the ante 200
b&mAKQJA: posts the ante 200
kalimist: posts the ante 200
erimus14: posts small blind 1000
brdave: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to erimus14 [Qh Kh]
aJarov: folds
b&mAKQJA: folds
kalimist: folds
cohen8: folds
ship"em84: folds
Starshii: folds
vvbunde: raises 2500 to 4500
erimus14: raises 6500 to 11000
brdave: folds
vvbunde: calls 6500
*** FLOP *** [ 10h 4h 7c]
erimus14: checks
vvbunde: checks
*** TURN *** [ 10h 4h 7c] [6s]
erimus14: bets 12000
vvbunde: calls 12000
*** RIVER *** [10h 4h 7c 6s] [10c]
erimus14: checks
vvbunde: bets 22000
erimus14: folds
Uncalled bet (22000) returned to vvbunde
vvbunde collected 49800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 49800 | Rake 0
Board [Th 4h 7c 6s Tc]
Seat 1: cohen8 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 2: ship"em84 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 3: Starshii folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 4: vvbunde (button) collected (49800)
Seat 5: erimus14 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 6: brdave (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: aJarov folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 8: b&mAKQJA folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 9: kalimist folded before Flop (didn"t bet)

deanp27:
If you are 3betting pre I am definitely c-betting this flop

AMRN:
Your 3b size pre mandates that he calls you with any two cards, and then he has position on you for the rest of the hand. If he were the cutoff and you were the button, I would like your 3b size, as you would be playing position..... therefore I think I either 3b more pre, or without any info on the guy, and being out of position, folding is also fine.

As played, having 3b pre, I"m never checking that flop unless the intention is to check-raise (probably check-shove), but we don"t know whether he has a tendency to check behind or to play aggressively.... so better to take the aggressive line from the outset and c-bet.... at this point, having 3b oop and followed with a c-bet, you are repping a pretty strong holding, and a weak player will fold a lot of the time..... but it then comes back to you not have any info about the guy and whether he is a weak player, or someone who may call pre in position and then float your c-bet.

tbh, with 50 BBs, playing oop against an unknown player, I think there is a strong argument for folding pre.

Once it gets to the river, you cannot make an informed decision as to how often your king hi may be good, as you have no info to refer back to about his floaty/bluffy/trappy type tendencies.

Erimus:

--- Quote from: deanp27 on February 27, 2012, 10:30:17 AM ---
If you are 3betting pre I am definitely c-betting this flop

--- End quote ---


In hindsight c betting the flop and re assessing the turn prob should be the way to go, ty for your input.

Erimus:

--- Quote from: AMRN on February 27, 2012, 10:56:39 AM ---
Your 3b size pre mandates that he calls you with any two cards, and then he has position on you for the rest of the hand. If he were the cutoff and you were the button, I would like your 3b size, as you would be playing position..... therefore I think I either 3b more pre, or without any info on the guy, and being out of position, folding is also fine.

As played, having 3b pre, I"m never checking that flop unless the intention is to check-raise (probably check-shove), but we don"t know whether he has a tendency to check behind or to play aggressively.... so better to take the aggressive line from the outset and c-bet.... at this point, having 3b oop and followed with a c-bet, you are repping a pretty strong holding, and a weak player will fold a lot of the time..... but it then comes back to you not have any info about the guy and whether he is a weak player, or someone who may call pre in position and then float your c-bet.

tbh, with 50 BBs, playing oop against an unknown player, I think there is a strong argument for folding pre.



Once it gets to the river, you cannot make an informed decision as to how often your king hi may be good, as you have no info to refer back to about his floaty/bluffy/trappy type tendencies.



--- End quote ---


Cheers ste, just checked on hem, I was button, villain was cut off but agree about the 3 bet size, i was giving him decent odds to call, but with 50 bigs didn"t want to get it all in with KQ off, that"s probably the nittier side of me coming in to play, although with him only calling the 3 bet didn"t put him on AK or AQ so could of been good, ty for your input

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