Poker Forum > Staker Exchange
APAT Staking Exchange - Discussion
Swinebag:
--- Quote from: Chipaccrual on June 19, 2012, 19:10:57 PM ---
Does anyone else think that staking with make up reads just like money lending. Replace make up with the word "debt" and it"s like something from the mob underworld.
You don"t owe me anymore, I sold your debt to one toothed Tony, and he won"t be so understanding ;)
--- End quote ---
don"t agree with this.
I"ll do an example...(again names made up to protect the innocent)
e.g.1 Leigh is a solid internet player who makes enough to play any £1K live event going. He does run poo in those though and has failed to cash in the last 23. At the 24th attempt he makes a final and finishes 4th for 25K, making him a 1K winner overall. GG sir
e.g.2 Phil TC is a live pro who is nearly broke. He is lucky to get a long term staking arrangement (40/60 in backers favour with make-up) where he can play as many live £1K events that are going. He fails to cash in his first 23, meaning he is now 23K in make-up. However, it is 24th time lucky as he manages to make a final and finishes 4th for 25K. He pays back the 24K that is owed and splits the 1K profit. He gets £400 for investing his time and skill and the backer who has invested 24K, walks off with £600.
The point of this is, that make-up arrangements mean that the profits are exactly the same as if you play on your own dime, with the exception that as a horse you don"t keep all your profit.
Of course there is a point where the backer may have had enough of a horses poor form. In this case the arrangement finishes with the backer taking a big hit and the horse is "debt" free.
So nothing like a debt IMO. Just a fair arrangement for both backer and horse. Just make sure you have a good relationship with the backer. These sort of staking deals can be the most stressful and are the ones that tend to lead to the big fallouts that we read about all the time.
Chipaccrual:
It was this bit that made me comment. More about the situation when a stakee doesn"t cash enough to clear the stake. Not sure how that can"t be seen as a debt ? The stakee owes the staker money, and would be expected to pay it back with any future winnings, dependant on either playing on their own dime, or finding more staking.
--- Quote from: sharplea on June 19, 2012, 18:17:24 PM ---
What happens at the end of the deal if the stakee does not turn a profit?
There are a few options and they depend on what both staker and stakee wish to do. Staker can cancel the makeup and eat the cost. If the staker doesn"t want to continue backing the stakee, they can sell the makeup at a reduced price (to be agreed privately) to the stakee"s new backer. The stakee can buy himself out should he wish to go alone. There are other options, but these are the main.
--- End quote ---
AAroddersAA:
The above is fine for Make up, surely stake back is pretty standard though in one off agreements? Especially if a premium is being charged.
mal666:
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on June 19, 2012, 20:50:14 PM ---
The above is fine for Make up, surely stake back is pretty standard though in one off agreements? Especially if a premium is being charged.
--- End quote ---
If I were to offer a stake say,
1 stake to big 55 on Stars, 70/30 my favour after stakeback.
Then it"s perfectly fine and acceptable.
If i put up a request,
Selling 30% of big 55 @ 1.2.
It"s up to you to determine if you think this is a value punt at the price given, stakeback is not included.
mal666:
You don"t have to markup btw, sell at spot if in doubt.
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