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dwh103:
Ha, such original chatbox abuse.

This is a difficult hand to analyse. With standards at this level being so variable (especially heads up) a lot does come down to your specific read, so most of the below will be pretty general.

Pre: Much prefer the min raise, if you think you have an edge on your opponent then you should want to give yourself more wiggle room post-flop. You should be using the first 5/6 hands to test how Villain reacts to clicks. I.e. click the first 3 buttons you get with ATC, look to get to showdown if at all possible and that can help dictate your subsequent HU strategy. If they fold to a min raise, then you never need to do any more than that. If they seemingly can"t pass, then (depending on chip stacks) I might test out 2.5x, then 3x opens, or even vary my opens depending on hand strength if Villain is poor. If this still isn"t working, then I significantly widen my limping range and play post.

Given you"ve just doubled up twice, you"ve not had the opportunity, so start now. Therefore I hate 3x with Q6o, it"s behind 2x, fold, limp in my preference list. By 3xing pre you"ve greatly reduced your options down the streets.

Post: If Villain is straightforwardly weak (common oppo type) then a c-bet is fine to get value from a J, T, 9 and XXcc, given that it should be fairly obvious if they"ve hit. If you do bet, half pot is fine. If this guy is aggro spewing, overvaluing weak hands/draws then I definitely prefer a check for pot control/deception (largely the former). I"m betting most turns if checked to and calling near 100% if he donks. I"m usually expecting to get one street of value for this type of hand, maybe two against a poorer opponent.

A bet achieves very little on the flop. Strong hands call/raise, mediocre-strong(er than you) hands call/raise, mediocre-weak hands call minimum, might raise. All draws call/raise and only air folds. You can"t stand a check-raise, and imo you can"t "protect" your hand, regardless of how much you bet. So many hands call, and there are so many different turn cards that are bad for you you"re not getting any information either. The only information you"ll get is if he has air and folds - and you"ll win the pot against this part of his range later on (unless he bluffs 2 streets, wp if he does, move on).

As played, barf spot on the turn. Some villains can easily have A9/AT here, he could be slowplaying something on the flop and is now worried about the club draw. Most obvious thing he"s repping is the flush - it"s down to your read on the Villain. Based on your previous play with Villain I hope you have some kind of feeling whether they"d check/call flop then lead out with a flush. Realistically, you only beat a spewy bluff here (probably pair+SD that turned the FD) - you should probably fold.

Edit: I"d previously talked absolute b******s about the turn (see Steve"s quote for just how bad), now clarified :)

Key is that any missteps early in a hand can have huge consequences later on. I.e. If you 2x, everyone makes the same % bets and you reach showdown lose, it costs you 20.5k instead of 30.3k. If you 2x/check/call/call vs the same % bets then it"s less than 10k.

AMRN:

--- Quote from: dwh103 on December 17, 2012, 15:20:20 PM ---
Ha, such original chatbox abuse.

This is a difficult hand to analyse. With standards at this level being so variable (especially heads up) a lot does come down to your specific read, so most of the below will be pretty general.

Pre: Much prefer the min raise, if you think you have an edge on your opponent then you should want to give yourself more wiggle room post-flop. You should be using the first 5/6 hands to test how Villain reacts to clicks. I.e. click the first 3 buttons you get with ATC, look to get to showdown if at all possible and that can help dictate your subsequent HU strategy. If they fold to a min raise, then you never need to do any more than that. If they seemingly can"t pass, then (depending on chip stacks) I might test out 2.5x, then 3x opens, or even vary my opens depending on hand strength if Villain is poor. If this still isn"t working, then I significantly widen my limping range and play post.

Given you"ve just doubled up twice, you"ve not had the opportunity, so start now. Therefore I hate 3x with Q6o, it"s behind 2x, fold, limp in my preference list. By 3xing pre you"ve greatly reduced your options down the streets.

Post: If Villain is straightforwardly weak (common oppo type) then a c-bet is fine to get value from a J, T, 9 and XXcc, given that it should be fairly obvious if they"ve hit. If you do bet, half pot is fine. If this guy is aggro spewing, overvaluing weak hands/draws then I definitely prefer a check for pot control/deception (largely the former). I"m betting most turns if checked to and calling near 100% if he donks. I"m usually expecting to get one street of value for this type of hand, maybe two against a poorer opponent.

A bet achieves very little on the flop. Strong hands call/raise, mediocre-strong(er than you) hands call/raise, mediocre-weak hands call minimum, might raise. All draws call/raise and only air folds. You can"t stand a check-raise, and imo you can"t "protect" your hand, regardless of how much you bet. So many hands call, and there are so many different turn cards that are bad for you you"re not getting any information either. The only information you"ll get is if he has air and folds - and you"ll win the pot against this part of his range later on (unless he bluffs 2 streets, wp if he does, move on).

As played, barf spot on the turn. Some villains can easily have A9/AT here, he could be slowplaying something on the flop and is now worried about the club draw. Most obvious thing he"s repping is the flush - it"s down to your read on the Villain. I"d only be calling because of the Qc, without this it"s a snap fold obv. However when you bink the 6 instead of the club it"s nasty. Based on your previous play with Villain I hope you have some kind of feeling whether they"d check/call flop then lead out with a flush. Realistically, you only beat a spewy bluff here (probably pair+SD that turned the FD) - you should probably fold. But I call because I suck and I"m a little moist at making 2 pair.

Key is that any missteps early in a hand can have huge consequences later on. I.e. If you 2x, everyone makes the same % bets and you reach showdown lose, it costs you 20.5k instead of 30.3k. If you 2x/check/call/call vs the same % bets then it"s less than 10k.

--- End quote ---


Wot he said!!!  Top post Dave.

mporter123:
Great post Dave.

In the past I have tended towards 3x when more than 40bb"s deep heads up (pretty rare).  I had assumed that this player type is not ever folding to the min raise so its essentially a steal. Agree that, in general, a min raise is better though.

I am still just massively unsure about the rest of the hand. Didnt like the turn and head exploded on the river. Need to read your post and try and take it in. Will post results of the hand later in the week.

dwh103:

--- Quote from: mporter123 on December 17, 2012, 17:17:26 PM ---
Great post Dave.

In the past I have tended towards 3x when more than 40bb"s deep heads up (pretty rare).  I had assumed that this player type is not ever folding to the min raise so its essentially a steal. Agree that, in general, a min raise is better though.

I am still just massively unsure about the rest of the hand. Didnt like the turn and head exploded on the river. Need to read your post and try and take it in. Will post results of the hand later in the week.

--- End quote ---


Cheers Mark, and Steve. I aim to please  :P

Past experience should give you a reasonable handle on the Villain, however many players strategies do dramatically change from 3 handed to HU, so still worth resorting to a stock strategy at the very beginning. If Villain seemingly calls wide, that"s great for you. Adjust your raising/limping ranges accordingly and take him to valuetown.

I would expect you to have an edge against the majority of opponents you"ll face, so you should always be tending towards smaller bets, making the stacks deeper and increasing the number of decisions for your opponent. It"ll amplify your opponents larger errors and also reduce your risk and variance.

I should probably clarify the turn. Looks like I"ve suggested calling because of the flush draw, and then potentially calling river based on hitting two pair. That reasoning is rubbish, and my statement is absolute garbage having reread it (I"d just woken up, weak defence I know!). I really should mean that I don"t expect to be winning here, but the only reason to call is if Villain"s range is super wide and you have the assistance of a strong FD - and that"s a bit of a stretch really.

Turn decision is purely on opponents tendencies. If his line bias" his range towards significant strength then the 2nd nut flush draw isn"t enough reason to call. You"d need prior history showing him to be crazy to continue, vast majority of Villain"s aren"t bluffing enough imo, and if they aren"t bluffing, a 6 on the river isn"t going to help you.

AMRN:

--- Quote from: mporter123 on December 17, 2012, 17:17:26 PM ---
In the past I have tended towards 3x when more than 40bb"s deep heads up (pretty rare).  I had assumed that this player type is not ever folding to the min raise so its essentially a steal.

--- End quote ---


Actually, this is partly the reason why you want to be minraising the button as opposed to making a 3x raise.... if you back yourself post flop, then you want to be playing as many flops against him as you can when you have position.

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