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Raise fold line really bad here????

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Swinebag:
strange one this. Was the plan to 3 bet and fold to a shove? Or was it "I have TT so I"ll 3 bet - **** he"s shoved, better fold then?". Can"t believe the latter hence the "strange one"

In the absense of UTG stats (and yours) and pre antes, I don"t think folding pre is too bad here, but once you 3 bet you have to call this off. You can"t narrow villains range that much, purely on a 20BB 4 bet shove.

Have you seen any hands he played to lose his chips with that convinced you to take this line?

I assume you are raising for value, so getting shipped on by the villain has to be part of the plan, so you have to call.

AAroddersAA:
The plan was 3-bet fold, I agree it looks horrid but how bad is it really in these games?

Charlie44:
Sorry to bore you with the maths. It appears relatively early in the tourney so Cev same as $ev.

I make it 769 to call with a pot of 1444 which means you need 34.7% chance of winning pot. If you assume he is only doing this with AA-JJ, AK. then you will win 35.7%, so the call is marginally ev+ even against this tight range. Start to add on smaller pairs and AQ and you get a signicantly big ev+ and a must call IMO.

AAroddersAA:

--- Quote from: Charlie44 on September 29, 2013, 01:35:08 AM ---
Sorry to bore you with the maths. It appears relatively early in the tourney so Cev same as $ev.

I make it 769 to call with a pot of 1444 which means you need 34.7% chance of winning pot. If you assume he is only doing this with AA-JJ, AK. then you will win 35.7%, so the call is marginally ev+ even against this tight range. Start to add on smaller pairs and AQ and you get a signicantly big ev+ and a must call IMO.

--- End quote ---

How tight is that starting range for a 4-bet shove in these though, I would certainly not include AQ and would not include all combos of AK. Smaller pairs are unlikely also.

Swinebag:

--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on September 29, 2013, 00:07:31 AM ---
The plan was 3-bet fold, I agree it looks horrid but how bad is it really in these games?

--- End quote ---


Just seems too good a hand to turn into a bluff. Were you 3bet folding a huge range against a perceived light UTG range?

JOOI what else are you 3b folding here, and what are you calling off with? Is it just that TT is the top of you 3bfold range and JJ is the bottom?

I"d rather fold pre than 3b fold TT here.

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