Poker Forum > General Discussion
Let's Talk HUD's
TightEnd:
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 08, 2013, 17:45:20 PM ---
Is this a spying mission Leigh? in support of Rob Yong"s recent absurd observations and stance around the current status of online poker.
--- End quote ---
Defintely not absurd. Even leaving aside the issue of HUDs for a moment a lot of his ideas around the recreational player experience (chat box abuse putting off players, anonymity putting off players, bots/cheating scandals etc) are extremely popular
Chipaccrual:
--- Quote from: amcgrath1uk on October 08, 2013, 20:12:27 PM ---
Leigh
You have precisely the same reasons as I do playing poker. I have no interest in playing nosebleed stakes, so the odd loss from a leak I can live with. I shall assume that you"re pretty comfortable with your own game, eg how aggressive/passive/tight/loose you are?
--- End quote ---
I"m okay with my game, although I"m not sure how much "game" I actually have. I make mistakes, but try to learn from them. I made a mistake in a satellite the other night, posted it up on here, and very quickly got confirmation that I played it incorrectly.
I made a mistake with my exit hand at Wembley. Should have lost the hand, but shouldn"t have gone bust.
I don"t regret either of those examples, but will learn from them. Poker software wouldn"t have helped me in either of those situations, at least I don"t think it would.
Interestingly, chatting to an APATer about this thread, I suggested that I might ask if poker software could help me win flips, or stop me running Kings into Aces (a bit tongue in cheek), but the suggestion was that it could help with that element of your play, and they have experiences that would prove that.
Anyone else got experiences of poker software helping their overall game, and not just the more statistical elements that have been discussed ?
--- Quote from: Joker161 on October 08, 2013, 23:19:51 PM ---
Thanks, Leigh, for giving a perfect description of my poker life! I also started in 2004 (or was it 2005) and am about break-even. I am intrigued by all this poker software, but given that I"ve only had the time to play once in the last six weeks, I clearly don"t do the volume. Like Andy, I prefer live when I do get the chance to play. Anyone for the Rendezvous £200 Saturday 26th October (half-term, obviously)?
I might give this software lark a go when I"m old(er) and retired.
--- End quote ---
Sounds like we"ve a similar poker past, apart from the fact you"ve done Vegas. That"s still on my list. :D
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: TightEnd on October 09, 2013, 13:11:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 08, 2013, 17:45:20 PM ---
Is this a spying mission Leigh? in support of Rob Yong"s recent absurd observations and stance around the current status of online poker.
--- End quote ---
Defintely not absurd. Even leaving aside the issue of HUDs for a moment a lot of his ideas around the recreational player experience (chat box abuse putting off players, anonymity putting off players, bots/cheating scandals etc) are extremely popular
--- End quote ---
Firstly, this agenda has its roots here in Phil Galfond"s blog. Phil Galfond imho is the most honest, humble and informed voice in the entire poker world but even so, he is not impartial and as he freely admits in that blog, some changes that are good for him, will hurt others. That is a core problem for all of us who participate in this debate and especially so for the Cardroom owners.
DTD online choose to offer their product on the ipoker network, hardly the model for customer care. Until recently they chose to close winning accounts as a solution to their inter-skin rake wars problem. That is a statement with substance which for me far outweighs any rhetoric or grand aspirational platitudes Mr Yong cares to offer.
As far as security issues, this is not a topic that needs discussing, allocate a budget and go after those who break the rules. Not doing so is akin to poor hygiene in a food business, do not allow your customers to fall ill because you haven"t been sufficiently diligent.
TightEnd:
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 09, 2013, 14:18:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: TightEnd on October 09, 2013, 13:11:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 08, 2013, 17:45:20 PM ---
Is this a spying mission Leigh? in support of Rob Yong"s recent absurd observations and stance around the current status of online poker.
--- End quote ---
Defintely not absurd. Even leaving aside the issue of HUDs for a moment a lot of his ideas around the recreational player experience (chat box abuse putting off players, anonymity putting off players, bots/cheating scandals etc) are extremely popular
--- End quote ---
Firstly, this agenda has its roots here in Phil Galfond"s blog. Phil Galfond imho is the most honest, humble and informed voice in the entire poker world but even so, he is not impartial and as he freely admits in that blog, some changes that are good for him, will hurt others. That is a core problem for all of us who participate in this debate and especially so for the Cardroom owners.
DTD online choose to offer their product on the ipoker network, hardly the model for customer care. Until recently they chose to close winning accounts as a solution to their inter-skin rake wars problem. That is a statement with substance which for me far outweighs any rhetoric or grand aspirational platitudes Mr Yong cares to offer.
As far as security issues, this is not a topic that needs discussing, allocate a budget and go after those who break the rules. Not doing so is akin to poor hygiene in a food business, do not allow your customers to fall ill because you haven"t been sufficiently diligent.
--- End quote ---
DTD chose to go to IPoker instead of Boss, which is clearly declining and an inferior product. Unless your are Stars/Tilt or a specialist site such as Sky Poker, its likely that the online landscape will change dramatically in the next five years and that very few networks will be around. IPoker will be one of those.
The MD of APAT, who chose to run an IPoker skin in his other world, probably agrees
Using language like "absurd" which you did is far more ludicrous than anything Rob Yong said. You may disagree with his point of view but to use language like you did was a bit lazy i think. Its his point of view, which he holds strongly. Certainly not absurd. Evne if you think its incorrect.
You are correct that there are big issues afoot. Online poker is in decline, over and above reasons of recession, and initiatives like this can potentially attract new people into the market. Its actually very aligned with what APAT has tried to do snce 2005
The problem with HUDs, specifically is not the issue of whether they give an advantage or not (plenty of people use them just to track results, rather than in game) but that for many recreational players they THINK its not a level playing field. Its an issue of perception that no amount of education can change
They also dislike being told to "die of cancer" when they outdraw a "grinder" to use an extreme example
Issues such as in game etiquette, bots, collusion etc all detract from the growth prospects of the industry and yes all sites spend a lot on these issues. Is IPoker as good at that as Stars? No, clearly not
This is obviously only from one angle, but from someone who makes a living analysing HUD stats for a staking operation its quite interesting i think
http://www.bluffeurope.com/PokerMagazine/Levelling-the-Field_147.aspx
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: TightEnd on October 09, 2013, 14:34:59 PM ---
DTD chose to go to IPoker instead of Boss, which is clearly declining and an inferior product. Unless your are Stars/Tilt or a specialist site such as Sky Poker, its likely that the online landscape will change dramatically in the next five years and that very few networks will be around. IPoker will be one of those.
The MD of APAT, who chose to run an IPoker skin in his other world, probably agrees
Using language like "absurd" which you did is far more ludicrous than anything Rob Yong said. You may disagree with his point of view but to use language like you did was a bit lazy i think. Its his point of view, which he holds strongly. Certainly not absurd. Evne if you think its incorrect.
You are correct that there are big issues afoot. Online poker is in decline, over and above reasons of recession, and initiatives like this can potentially attract new people into the market. Its actually very aligned with what APAT has tried to do snce 2005
The problem with HUDs, specifically is not the issue of whether they give an advantage or not (plenty of people use them just to track results, rather than in game) but that for many recreational players they THINK its not a level playing field. Its an issue of perception that no amount of education can change
They also dislike being told to "die of cancer" when they outdraw a "grinder" to use an extreme example
Issues such as in game etiquette, bots, collusion etc all detract from the growth prospects of the industry and yes all sites spend a lot on these issues. Is IPoker as good at that as Stars? No, clearly not
This is obviously only from one angle, but from someone who makes a living analysing HUD stats for a staking operation its quite interesting i think
http://www.bluffeurope.com/PokerMagazine/Levelling-the-Field_147.aspx
--- End quote ---
Most of those issues can be dealt with very quickly but at a cost to the providers, which I suspect is not an insignificant factor. It is absurd imho to pay lip service to issues that are firmly in your control should you wish to address those issues.
You may deem that to be lazy on my part, an opinion you are quite entitled to have and to voice, but then again we could say that about my assertions too.
If stars can do it?
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