Poker Forum > Live Poker
APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
Paulie_D:
--- Quote from: Fatcatstu on January 15, 2014, 10:51:31 AM ---
See, I think soft play is ok, I won"t be playing massive hands against action from a team mate, but I will also not be chip dumping as I think that is wrong.
There should be some space left in this tourny for the team whose players play best to win, not just the ones who can carry dead weight for longest.
--- End quote ---
Saved me the trouble of typing the same
AAroddersAA:
--- Quote from: AMRN on January 15, 2014, 10:47:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Laxie on January 15, 2014, 00:28:07 AM ---
--- Quote from: LombBomb on January 14, 2014, 22:18:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on January 14, 2014, 20:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: LombBomb on January 14, 2014, 18:48:24 PM ---
All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.
--- End quote ---
I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.
--- End quote ---
The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable. Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.
--- End quote ---
Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right. It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.
--- End quote ---
So imagine a situation where the title is close to being decided, and a team has two players left in, and are on the verge of victory. One is huge chip leader and bullying the table, but the other is short-stacked and on the same table. The big stack opens for 2x as he has done for the past ten hands in a row.... his short stacked team mate then shoves for 4x and it folds back round to the original raiser. Clearly, in poker terms he has to call - folding is not an option....... If he calls, he MIGHT lose the hand and double his team-mate up, but he might also win/suckout and bust his team-mate, and hand the title to another team. Therefore, in the team context, folding is absolutely correct - but in poker terms, this would be soft play.
I hate this debate - it"s been going on forever. If we are to continue with "TEAM POKER", surely we just have to bite the bullet and recognise that usual poker rules don"t apply when it comes to chip dumping, soft play, etc. It"s either an Individual tournament or it"s a Team tournament - the rules don"t necessarily fit both formats.
For me, soft play and chip passing should be an integral part of Team Poker, and it"s up to the other teams to see it happening and to take advantage. Like all poker, it"s about adjusting to varying dynamics...... Team Poker could become a really exciting concept if we were to embrace it fully, rather than trying to apply rules that don"t fit the concept.
--- End quote ---
I agree with this post but the rules are the rules. I thought this one was settled actually and APAT had said it is not allowed. It us a shame because it would improve the event but it is banned.
If this (paragraph 1) happens in Stoke there should be a severe penalty (player DQ as it is cheating). That is the rule and it should be applied otherwise it just becomes even more confusing.
LombBomb:
--- Quote from: AMRN on January 15, 2014, 10:47:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Laxie on January 15, 2014, 00:28:07 AM ---
--- Quote from: LombBomb on January 14, 2014, 22:18:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on January 14, 2014, 20:05:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: LombBomb on January 14, 2014, 18:48:24 PM ---
All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.
--- End quote ---
I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.
--- End quote ---
The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable. Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.
--- End quote ---
Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right. It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.
--- End quote ---
So imagine a situation where the title is close to being decided, and a team has two players left in, and are on the verge of victory. One is huge chip leader and bullying the table, but the other is short-stacked and on the same table. The big stack opens for 2x as he has done for the past ten hands in a row.... his short stacked team mate then shoves for 4x and it folds back round to the original raiser. Clearly, in poker terms he has to call - folding is not an option....... If he calls, he MIGHT lose the hand and double his team-mate up, but he might also win/suckout and bust his team-mate, and hand the title to another team. Therefore, in the team context, folding is absolutely correct - but in poker terms, this would be soft play.
I hate this debate - it"s been going on forever. If we are to continue with "TEAM POKER", surely we just have to bite the bullet and recognise that usual poker rules don"t apply when it comes to chip dumping, soft play, etc. It"s either an Individual tournament or it"s a Team tournament - the rules don"t necessarily fit both formats.
For me, soft play and chip passing should be an integral part of Team Poker, and it"s up to the other teams to see it happening and to take advantage. Like all poker, it"s about adjusting to varying dynamics...... Team Poker could become a really exciting concept if we were to embrace it fully, rather than trying to apply rules that don"t fit the concept.
--- End quote ---
I couldn"t agree more with this. In a recent Online team championship a team was disqualified for perceived chip dumping then subsequently re-instated. I"m highlighting that not as a slight against that team, but more to emphasise the point that these team formats don"t follow "normal" poker logic, and in trying to apply "rules" regarding chip passing/dumping you open a huge can of worms IMO.
In any case it"s a 240 player MTT so instances of team-mates being on the same table are going to be rare.
MintTrav:
--- Quote from: AMRN on January 15, 2014, 10:47:37 AM ---
I hate this debate - it"s been going on forever. If we are to continue with "TEAM POKER", surely we just have to bite the bullet and recognise that usual poker rules don"t apply when it comes to chip dumping, soft play, etc. It"s either an Individual tournament or it"s a Team tournament - the rules don"t necessarily fit both formats.
For me, soft play and chip passing should be an integral part of Team Poker, and it"s up to the other teams to see it happening and to take advantage. Like all poker, it"s about adjusting to varying dynamics...... Team Poker could become a really exciting concept if we were to embrace it fully, rather than trying to apply rules that don"t fit the concept.
--- End quote ---
Totally agree.
AMRN:
--- Quote from: LombBomb on January 15, 2014, 11:11:47 AM ---
In any case it"s a 240 player MTT so instances of team-mates being on the same table are going to be rare.
--- End quote ---
Correct in the early stages when the tourney is deep, and raise/folding for team advantage is less obvious..... but when it gets to the business end, team players sharing tables is going to happen when stacks are shallower and raise/folds become very obvious, and at a critical time.
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