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JJ..

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CW86:

--- Quote from: Swinebag22 on December 17, 2013, 17:50:29 PM ---

As played I"m shipping here. Readless pre I like the min raise to induce.

--- End quote ---


+1,000,000

adilong1:

--- Quote from: DodgyEnd on December 17, 2013, 15:44:42 PM ---
I think I would just shove here... He could be putting you on a steal and could do this with any Ace or 2 high cards; or a smaller pair.

So most of the time I think you will be well ahead or a have a coinflip; if he has QQ+ that"s just bad luck.
And you are still in the tournament if you lose.



--- End quote ---


This^^

Swinebag:
Open shoving is a really unprofitable play here with these stacks.

You may get called by weaker hands that think you are "at it" but what is most likely is that you generally fold out a load of hands that would ship over a min raise that are crushed by JJ.

Swinebag:
Also by min raising you can steal profitably and fold to a reshove if needs be. Open shoving just tightens your range

AAroddersAA:
If there are 22 left then 12K is actually slightly below average but it does not make a lot of difference tbh. We are still 30BB deep. Antes will be 50 at this point. Readless means we have to take the default player in a Pokerstars $4.50. This should not be mixed up with the default player in a $2.50 (turbo) btw. This is not a turbo structure and this has an affect on our decisions, the correct play in a $2.50 may not be correct play here. We should still be trying to make the final table at this point.

Raise/Call a shove is a far better play than open shoving. Although restealing in these is pretty rare it does occasionally happen and a reshoving range will be slightly weaker than a calling range as they have percieved fold equity. In the turbo games I have seen reshoves in this kind of spot with hands like A2 suited and T9 suited. You see this a LOT less in these games but it does still happen. You will occasionally get flat called of course but this is fine as you have position and a hand that totally dominates their flatting range. You will win more chips this way than you will by shoving, even though shoving is +EV.

With our min raise we should have 350 (about) antes in the pot, 600 in blinds and our 800 raise so a total of 1750. With around 6K their stacks are perfect to reship with loads of fold equity against a button raise. I would say that they will do this with a range of:-

88+, AJ+, KQ - obviously we crush this you can even add in some other hands that are the air in their range.

The problem is we have not seen a shove here but a weird small raise. I don"t see this being like two broadway cards very often as they should be happy to take it there. I think a lot of the middle pairs are happy to win it there as well so would shove. His range for doing this is likely TT+ and strongly weighted towards AA and KK in these. We play badly against this. If I am playing well I can fold this hand here, not easily but I can do it in game.

If we are not folding I think shoving is probably a little better than calling even some of the hands that are obviously crushed will convince themselves to call due to pot odds.

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