Poker Forum > Strategy
Unbalanced limping range in early position
PHIL_TC:
Rarely post on these boards.. but when it comes to strategies isn"t how you play totally dependant on how your opponents play?
If you read Elky"s book Raiser"s edge (excellent read from a year or so btw) he says something like this :
1. Don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by.... 2. raise a lot, don"t call a lot
2. Raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by... 3. raise a lot, call a lot
3. Raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by... 4. don"t raise a lot, call a lot
4. Don"t raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by and back to.. 1. don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot
Simple view I know. But the simplest view is often the best x
AAroddersAA:
--- Quote from: PHIL_TC on January 17, 2014, 13:19:19 PM ---
Rarely post on these boards.. but when it comes to strategies isn"t how you play totally dependant on how your opponents play?
If you read Elky"s book Raiser"s edge (excellent read from a year or so btw) he says something like this :
1. Don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by.... 2. raise a lot, don"t call a lot
2. Raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by... 3. raise a lot, call a lot
3. Raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by... 4. don"t raise a lot, call a lot
4. Don"t raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by and back to.. 1. don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot
Simple view I know. But the simplest view is often the best x
--- End quote ---
Please post more in this thread, this is a good point. My opinion on it is:-
Totally dependent on your opponents - no, there are definitely other factors as well but Mark did say at the start of this thread that we were discussing the options before we have a read on the table.
Also there are good solid strategy"s that will work against the vast majority of the way players play today (I think this is called population tendencies). Think how you would play a hand at the start of the game against a table of unknowns. You are not guess guessing your play you are basing your decisions on other factors and the way you know today"s players usually play.
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: mporter123 on January 16, 2014, 20:29:42 PM ---
First few levels of a tournament, no antes, lets say buy in is
pokerpops:
--- Quote from: PHIL_TC on January 17, 2014, 13:19:19 PM ---
Rarely post on these boards.. but when it comes to strategies isn"t how you play totally dependant on how your opponents play?
If you read Elky"s book Raiser"s edge (excellent read from a year or so btw) he says something like this :
1. Don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by.... 2. raise a lot, don"t call a lot
2. Raise a lot, don"t call a lot ... is beaten by... 3. raise a lot, call a lot
3. Raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by... 4. don"t raise a lot, call a lot
4. Don"t raise a lot, call a lot... is beaten by and back to.. 1. don"t raise a lot, don"t call a lot
Simple view I know. But the simplest view is often the best x
--- End quote ---
Given the population tendencies of local casino games
mporter123:
--- Quote from: dwh103 on January 17, 2014, 01:07:05 AM ---
Awful, when the alternative is clicking (should you even wish to play those hands), retaining the initiative, creating an image and better defining opponent ranges.
--- End quote ---
Dave - I don"t think this can ever be awful. There is a strong likelihood when we click open that we will go multiway. Retaining the initiative is far less important then, I don"t know how many flops we will be C betting when we go 4/5 ways. We will still create our aggro image when we open chunks from mid position onwards. I am also not sure we really define our opponents range much if at all with a raise as opposed to a limp. There are some hands that villains will fold to a raise that they would call a limp but in these tournaments they are far more concerned with there "pretty hand" rather than how strong your raise looks. When we open,cutoff calls, button calls and the blinds come along - ranges are still going to be really wide.
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on January 17, 2014, 10:58:28 AM ---
Open limping is not generally not what I do but it"s a great discussion topic, what is the plan? Limp/Call and hit big or get out? If there is a raise/3-bet we fold right?
--- End quote ---
Limp call would be the plan >90% of the time. We would very rarely be getting the right price not to call. Limp raise basically never - we don"t want to turn these hands into bluffs unnecessarily. We can fold very occasionally, for example, we limp the 89suited UTG at 25/50 and a really good player makes it 275 on the button. Would be folding suited connectors there and calling pocket pairs as we would still be getting the correct price.
I won"t go through individually what we would do with those options you gave. Essentially we would be looking to make bets if we think we can get people to fold better hands or call with worse.
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on January 17, 2014, 15:24:50 PM ---
How profitable this is will rely on your post flop skills, are they sufficient to minimise losses in the inevitable tough spots you now create?
--- End quote ---
This is the crux behind doing this. In the majority of times we reg up for a $5 tournament or a £25 live tournament we consider ourselves to be the best player at the table. I don"t think that"s unreasonable either by the way. My edge is much bigger post flop, I will have played these tough spots over and over and will consistently make better decisions than opponents.
FWIW, I have never adopted a strategy like this. "Always be opening with a raise" is a decent thought process to start with in poker but it shouldn"t blinker us from making plays that might be even more +ev. I am still most definitely undecided on this and am looking for more feedback.
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