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First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!

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deanp27:
i don"t mind flatting the turn and i agree with you. However your initial raise should be a tad bigger imo so that after his raise makes it easier to get stacks in on the turn, or if he flats your flop raise you can get more on a safe river

cincicrappykid:

--- Quote from: showdown on March 22, 2010, 18:14:25 PM ---
With a single opponent and having the nuts on the turn, is jamming on the turn here in the long run going to result in -EV?  Yes the river was a bad card and cost me my tournament, retrospectively, it should have been an easy lay down, but in these spots where I cannot be re-drawn by a flush or a better straight, I would want to keep my player in the hand to extract the most value.

I personally think my play on the turn was OK but bad call on the river with the paired board.

Many thanks to those who have replied though, very insightful!

--- End quote ---
wot i said then  :-*

noble1:

--- Quote from: showdown on March 22, 2010, 18:14:25 PM ---
in these spots where I cannot be re-drawn by a flush or a better straight, I would want to keep my player in the hand to extract the most value.

I personally think my play on the turn was OK but bad call on the river with the paired board.

Many thanks to those who have replied though, very insightful!

--- End quote ---


flatting the turn would be ok if only 1 opponent maybe with reads but you had 2 players showing interest on the turn , the orignal raiser has just led into 3 others with position on himself so personally i would weigh his range more towards sets and 2 pairs [maybe AJ same as u] his action fits QQ [king flop , F##K check , turn yippee i hit my set] or QT or 44 , the callers range is a tad wider so i cannot see any merit to calling turn...

noble1:
i was trying to think how re-raising the turn could be put from thought to words/writing.When we have the nuts,you can get away with fast playing on the turn imho we should not ever mind narrowing our opponents range to only his strongest holdings because we can beat those hands and they can pay us off big.If the pot represents a good percentage of our stack it is worth the risk of protecting aggressively even if villains hands have only 15to25% equity.The problem i try to work on within my own game is knowing when to take my hand to showdown against a range that i can profit from when i have less strong hands eg top pair/over pair hands versus possible draws in villains ranges..The problem for me is knowing when to play medium strength hands flop onwards in such a way that i keep in villains hands weaker than mine but by not showing to much strength as to i only get action from stronger ones and fold out all weaker or get bluffed off the better hand etc etc by getting bet at so big i find it difficult to call.

meh just some random thoughts that met get u thinking , this thread got me thinking [good i suspose?] :)

showdown:
@Noble1 - Thanks for the detailed comments, there was a lot to think about there.  With regards the turn and the other opponents, the villain had raised from first position and player 2 had folded when it got to me, so it was do I keep him around by flatting or go for the shove.  I must admit I did consider both at the time, and looking back and considering everyone"s opinion, I would have made the raise bigger on the turn and given the stacks remaining and the pot probably got all the chips in there and then, then *bleeped* the river and gone straight to the bar.

I guess the big learning point for me here is I think I saw the jackpot before weighing all the options.  I wrote off QQ in my initial thinking on the day, but you"re probably right, he did fit his move, of checking the flop then waking up on the turn.  So the board pairing on the river should have been a giant neon sign with "DANGER DANGER" written on it.

I think perhaps I was destined to lose this one.  Even when he had K10 for 2 pair would he have laid down to a shove on the turn?  Maybe, but who knows.....

Once again thanks for everyone"s comments

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