Poker Forum > Strategy
KK tournaments first hand. Whats your move?
shozboy1:
The main worry is the button. I would reraise to 2000ish, call any preflop reraise from the button (assuming its an all in).
Shoving now however might just get someone (likely the button) to lay down hands like JJ-88/AQ which would be bad. If he repops you with AA preflop and you call its the same situation as shoving all in anyway. i.e. the outcome is the same.
If you repop to 2000 and assuming the btn calls, you can happily shove any flop not containing an ace.
If it does contain an ace you can re-evaluate. If you check and he checks behind, I"ll probably shove the turn. If you check, he bets, then depending on reads/tells/bet size fold equity etc you could check raise all in etc etc.
Most flops won"t contain an ace, the 15% odd time they do (noble correct that % if its wrong) its not necessarily a check-fold situation, so all is not lost either.
AMRN:
Shoz - you"re not considering the value you will miss from hands like QQ/JJ that will almost always call you shove preflop.... but will likely fold if you shove a flop with an overcard on.
shoving pre ensures you get maximum value against underpairs and AK
shozboy1:
ok I see what you are saying there. Your saying by shoving preflop you get someone to put all their money in now with jj/qq rather then finding a way out by folding on a ace high/king high flop.
I take your point, but that would be read dependent aswell. Depending on the event/reads/buy in/stage of tourney etc, if I was the button I"d be thinking...
"I"ve just repopped someone who just 3bet an UTG raiser, and I"ve then been reshoved all in by someone from the small blind. I could conceivably fold QQ here and definitely JJ".
I think if the button gets shoved on JJ becomes a pretty easy fold. What am I saying? I dont really know! there"s no standard way to play this imho. I think its got to be player/read dependent. Seen as I"m 5betting (i think) a tight buttn player who"s just 4 bet I dont think he"ll ever show up with less than QQ so we"ll be "getting it in" one way or another.
It becomes a player dependent issue. Is he someone who gets scared by overcards? Will he never let go of a premium pair? If the answer to second question is yes, then easy preflop shove all in.
Marty719:
u think shoving loses value from 88-jj? What do u think these hands do wen u make it 2k? U know how strong making it 2k looks?
LongshanksED:
i was really wondering about the shove - i thought if i shoved, then any pair >1010 would fold except the 4 bettor who would snap call with a pair like QQ > 77 or AK/AQ
im also not raising to fold any flop if i get it heads up with one player, if i make it 2k im pretty much calling the final 3k on any flop. and if they have aces or a raggy/mid ace and hits then so be it, coolered to an extent
i actually made it 2.5k which i thought would not only make me pot commited to a shove from one, its putting the others to a tough decision. their shove or fold, yet if its a shove then call before action is back to me i can make a real tough decision and probably make a bad fold
thoughts on my 2.5k bet? bad, spewy?
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