Poker Forum > Strategy
Call?
noble1:
--- Quote from: Pitchie on November 04, 2010, 10:49:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on November 04, 2010, 00:19:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: Pitchie on November 03, 2010, 23:42:22 PM ---
I nearly didn"t reply to this for that very response there! I just wanted to get over how bad I think these games sometimes are. Sometimes they"re ok, sometimes they"re unplayable!
Seriously though, even before the win, I hated the 0.50/1.00 for the cap and the blind bets. I love to play bad players, but I like to play them when I can play poker and determine my hand strength by playing the hand a certain way. Unless your at a good table which already has money at it, I don"t ever think you"ll hone your skills well at those games.
Paul
--- End quote ---
Completely disagree Paul.
--- End quote ---
You make some real valid points of which I completely agree with. Tilt control and bankroll management are very very important as you quite rightly state.
However, the OP was questioning whether or not it is right in this situation to call with 33 on the board in question. I would virtually never, in this game, in this situation, fold because the game is so soft. And as I previously got onto, I personally think that playing your hand vs hand ranges is one of the most important skills you"ll need to play good players. In these games, you won"t develop that skill. This is what I was trying to point out to the OP"er. If you want to learn about tricky spot"s as this situation may or may not be, playing $0.50/$1.00 (dollars not pounds) will learn you more than that game will, and you"ll still learn the important stuff you mentioned.
Frankly, you are better off sitting in the £1.00/£2.00 game with £100 (50BB"s) than you are buying in for the cap at £0.50/£1.00.
Paul.
--- End quote ---
agree with Paul that u learn by playing better players, getting good at poker is about learning and not winning, the better u get as u learn then winning money goes hand in hand with u getting better because u are learning :)
Once u learn the fundamentals playing weak players then imho your game stagnates if u continue playing them, in some cases i"d say some players go backwards :)
Playing against a tough opponent/opponents forces you to step up your game, i suppose the trick is not to step up to far lol. Pick/table select opponents that are just ahead of yourself, just so that"s it enough of a challenge so that it forces to you think and focus more than you usually do. It"s then a case of hopefully you"ll hold your own, its the only way to get an idea of your potential. If it goes tits up then it is a case of trying to work out what your not good at, even if you thought that certain areas of your game was ok, flaws in your game will be more exposed playing tough opponents IMO. On the flipside of playing tough opponents it doesn"t just expose flaws in your game, it can also expose areas that your good at which you weren"t really aware of, again when you review afterwards hopefully you"ll get to understand why.. lol lol ...
Phil Ivey"s opinion on how to get better is at the 2min 50sec mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNthDspItsQ&feature=player_embedded
TheSnapper:
Since you resurrected this interesting thread Noble
--- Quote from: Pitchie on November 03, 2010, 23:42:22 PM ---
I nearly didn"t reply to this for that very response there! I just wanted to get over how bad I think these games sometimes are. Sometimes they"re ok, sometimes they"re unplayable!
Seriously though, even before the win, I hated the 0.50/1.00 for the cap and the blind bets. I love to play bad players, but I like to play them when I can play poker and determine my hand strength by playing the hand a certain way. Unless your at a good table which already has money at it, I don"t ever think you"ll hone your skills well at those games.
Paul
--- End quote ---
My response was to the comment "I don"t ever think you"ll hone your skills well at those games."
IMHO thats totally incorrect. There is plenty to observe and learn in this game, consider it your first year at Poker College, a place to learn some fundamentals cheaply or if your a quick learner, for a profit.
--- Quote from: Pitchie on November 03, 2010, 23:42:22 PM ---
I personally think that playing your hand vs hand ranges is one of the most important skills you"ll need to play good players. In these games, you won"t develop that skill. This is what I was trying to point out to the OP"er.
--- End quote ---
Its really tough to hand read against the wide ranges found in this type of game for sure. It is often argued that it is much easier to hand read versus the smaller ranges of nitty players and I would definately agree with that observation.
Conversely though, it should then follow that the wider ranges provide more of a hand reading challenge. So again, to state "In these games, you won"t develop that skill", is IMHO incorrect.
--- Quote from: noble1 on December 16, 2010, 12:57:44 PM ---
agree with Paul that u learn by playing better players, getting good at poker is about learning and not winning, the better u get as u learn then winning money goes hand in hand with u getting better because u are learning :)
Once u learn the fundamentals playing weak players then imho your game stagnates if u continue playing them, in some cases i"d say some players go backwards :)
Playing against a tough opponent/opponents forces you to step up your game, i suppose the trick is not to step up to far lol. Pick/table select opponents that are just ahead of yourself, just so that"s it enough of a challenge so that it forces to you think and focus more than you usually do. It"s then a case of hopefully you"ll hold your own, its the only way to get an idea of your potential. If it goes tits up then it is a case of trying to work out what your not good at, even if you thought that certain areas of your game was ok, flaws in your game will be more exposed playing tough opponents IMO. On the flipside of playing tough opponents it doesn"t just expose flaws in your game, it can also expose areas that your good at which you weren"t really aware of, again when you review afterwards hopefully you"ll get to understand why.. lol lol ...
Phil Ivey"s opinion on how to get better is at the 2min 50sec mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNthDspItsQ&feature=player_embedded
--- End quote ---
You certainly " learn by playing better players" and obviously you learn stuff you most definately won"t learn "at those games" (ie. first year of Poker College) but that doesn"t equate to "I don"t ever think you"ll hone your skills well at those games.".
Simply put, the complexities of Poker offers multiple skill levels to master, each next level is almost like a whole new game, invisible to you and only revealed when you fully understand your current skill level.
Some uber talented players may succeed immediately in higher standard games, some will learn faster than others but IMHO a solid learning process should exclusively start at the basic level and build on that by way of adding the more advanced skills and understandings.
On top of all of that....
--- Quote from: noble1 ---
"getting good at poker is about learning and not winning"
--- End quote ---
Getting good at poker = Winning. But! you can"t learn if you don"t play, you can"t play if you"re Busto, hence......
--- Quote from: TheSnapper ---
* Play in games you can afford to play in
* Play in games you can beat
* Learn
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: noble1 ---
"Once u learn the fundamentals playing weak players then imho your game stagnates"
--- End quote ---
So you should.....
--- Quote from: TheSnapper ---
* Move up levels
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: noble1 ---
"trick is not to step up to far lol."
"just so that"s it enough of a challenge"
--- End quote ---
AKA......
--- Quote from: TheSnapper ---
* Manage your bankroll
* Move up levels
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: noble1 ---
"If it goes tits up"
--- End quote ---
It won"t if you........
--- Quote from: TheSnapper ---
* Manage your bankroll
--- End quote ---
And finally, one last seldom mentioned point.
Progress and learning in Poker is measured by winnings but unlike in most pursuits this key peformance indicator will very often lie to us. On any given day we can.........
* Play our absolute best and lose big
* Play our absolute worst and win big
It takes a unique physcological fortitude to not be deceived by this anomaly.
noble1:
Lots of waffle for good to learn the basics at SSNL imho ;D BUT to get better u still need to move up and play better players... Is it really hard to play SSNL? not imho, full of passive bad and aggressive bad players, value bet till the passive player reraises and let go of 1pair hands instantly, against aggressive bad then TPTK is mostly ahead, eassssy game... :) like i maintain , that sort of skill is dumbing down to the the most basic level, hand reading is far easier in SSNL moreso against a NIT as there hands are face up by the river, its not rocket science.. :) plus it helps if u have your lucky pants/socks on plus a BRA on your head imho...
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: noble1 on December 16, 2010, 17:32:58 PM ---
Lots of waffle for good to learn the basics at SSNL imho ;D BUT to get better u still need to move up and play better players... Is it really hard to play SSNL? not imho, full of passive bad and aggressive bad players, value bet till the passive player reraises and let go of 1pair hands instantly, against aggressive bad then TPTK is mostly ahead, eassssy game... :) like i maintain , that sort of skill is dumbing down to the the most basic level, hand reading is far easier in SSNL moreso against a NIT as there hands are face up by the river, its not rocket science.. :) plus it helps if u have your lucky pants/socks on plus a BRA on your head imho...
--- End quote ---
Your selective reading skills are well honed ;D
noble1:
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on December 16, 2010, 17:37:28 PM ---
Your selective reading skills are well honed ;D
--- End quote ---
i think andrew seidman maybe onto something yes :)
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