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Kings early in APAT UK

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lukybugur:
Pipe down Daniel, I was just trying to make him feel better!   ;D



--- Quote ---Having played at the same table - you"d be surprised what some people were calling large bets with
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I wasn"t at the table but the first line read; "First level of APAT UK: no info on any players"

The guy, if he didn"t have 66 or 77, represented them well IMO. If you"d only called him ... or if he"s reading this ...

kinboshi:
I agree.  That"s why it"s possibly better to play with garbage early doors than the so-called "monster" starting hands.  

UKChamp:
I agree with Kin, had this hand cropped up later (with the benefit of a table image/information)I would have called more easily. Such is the way in tournaments. 

The main thing people seem to be ignoring or maybe its not an issue for them is the UTG player. If the hand had been heads up (no UTG player)I would probably have called.  However it wasnt, so if I flat called and UTG came over the top I would certainly have to fold.

UTG limp called preflop, flat called flop. At this point its hard to put her on a big pair as surley she would have raised on of the previous streets. So to me a mid/low pair or made str8 is a fair assumption. I discount suited conns given that the flop bet was quite a price to draw too.

The turn brought an ace and she could in theory have hoped for me to bet into. So my check was correct I think. When the river brings an ace would I really expect UTG to bet into a possible full house. Much more value in trap checking twice to induce a bluff. So really it makes it very difficult to rate my KK highly given that the Midd player alone looks to have something, when combined with UTG ranges it just gets worse.

If UTG had raised earlier, this could have thinned the field and potentially created an all or nothing elimination hand. Maybe I am thankful, in a funny kind of way, that this didnt happen.

P.S
Not sure I agree with the bet amount statements by Luky. The size of the bet if anything looks more of a steal to me. With such passive nature to the end, an almost pot size river bet looks like it doesnt want a call, not the other way around.

lukybugur:

--- Quote ---
P.S
Not sure I agree with the bet amount statements by Luky. The size of the bet if anything looks more of a steal to me. With such passive nature to the end, an almost pot size river bet looks like it doesnt want a call, not the other way around.

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I agree, this is definitely one where you have to get a feeling for the player.

As I said though, this would be exactly how I"d play 66 or 77. With the player on the button willing to fire out a pot sized bet on the flop and with UTG willing to call it, I would play it fairly confident that one of these players is still going to call a sizable bet on the river.

You and Daniel though, being sat at the table, both felt he had nothing. If this is an experienced and decorated player I would give him credit for a very clever play, for reading you both well enough to know that you"re both gonna fold, and for making you both think that he was on-the-steal whilst raking in your chips. I do think he had the nuts but I"m a fairly tight player and often give too much credit.

I tend to play by the term; If you think you"re beat at the river, you probably are!

UKChamp:

--- Quote from: lukybugur on December 11, 2007, 22:51:52 PM ---

--- Quote ---
P.S
Not sure I agree with the bet amount statements by Luky. The size of the bet if anything looks more of a steal to me. With such passive nature to the end, an almost pot size river bet looks like it doesnt want a call, not the other way around.

--- End quote ---


I agree, this is definitely one where you have to get a feeling for the player.

As I said though, this would be exactly how I"d play 66 or 77. With the player on the button willing to fire out a pot sized bet on the flop and with UTG willing to call it, I would play it fairly confident that one of these players is still going to call a sizable bet on the river.

You and Daniel though, being sat at the table, both felt he had nothing. If this is an experienced and decorated player I would give him credit for a very clever play, for reading you both well enough to know that you"re both gonna fold, and for making you both think that he was on-the-steal whilst raking in your chips. I do think he had the nuts but I"m a fairly tight player and often give too much credit.

I tend to play by the term; If you think you"re beat at the river, you probably are!



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