Poker Forum > Strategy
Checking down to eliminate a player
Jon MW:
Everybody knows the situation where a couple of players will check down the hand without bothering to bet the other person out of the pot, because they are hoping one of them will beat an all in player and eliminate them from the pot.
Another thread made it clear that there are a number of people who will just always try and do this.
But when should you be trying to eliminate the all in player, and when should you be trying to get rid of the third person in the pot?
I"ll start with an example of my own and after that"s been dissected, maybe other examples can be found in people"s hand history"s of either situation - and the thought process and logic as why they checked it down or not.
Jon MW:
My example regards a hand in this tournament:
World Series of Poker, Event 29, Seven-Card Razz
However this is a semi-hypothetical hand to (a) more clearly demonstrate the principle involved, and (b) because I can"t remember the exact details.
The hand before the hand in question - this happened:
--- Quote ---Jen Harman"s stack just took a huge hit, leaving her in critical condition going into the money in this event. With Jen driving the action most of the way and calling down her opponent"s bets on the last two streets, she showed 2-3-5-6-7 but was outdone by the A-3-4-5-7 on the table across from her.
--- End quote ---
courtesy of www.pokerlistings.com
The example hand was this hand:
--- Quote ---Jen was sent to the rails shortly after courtesy of the British cowboy Jon Woodfield.
--- End quote ---
courtesy of www.pokerlistings.com
The tournament was down from 341 to 23 players, so everybody was in the money.
The limits were $2k,$4, antes $500, buy in $500, average stack about $60000.
The 4 players involved were:
(1) the buy in (who doesn"t really factor much)
(2) Hank (possibly not his real name, but he was American, he had a short but not critically short stack)
(3) Jen Harman (absolutely critical stack, only about a couple of big bets left)
(4) and Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield (Chip leader)
On 3rd street the betting was raising just enough to put Jen Harman all in (this is where the buy in exited pretty quickly)
On 4th street I bet Hank called.
On 5th street I bet Hand folded.
The cards were largely irrelevant, lets say Hank had a made 9 low and I was drawing to a 7 low.
My questions to you are:
(a) Why did I bet and not check it down?
(b) Why did Hank fold?
I know the answer to (a). For (b) I know why I was betting and why I thought he might fold - but I don"t know for sure, so any other theories are more than welcome as they could point the way to strategies to use in the future.
ThePiranha:
I think you might struggle here Jon.
I dont think razz has quite yet reached the heights of nlhe. Why didnt you post a hold em thread so we could all get stuck in???
Oh, and you were chip leader with 23 left and finished 13th???
Tut Tut Tut Tut
Jon MW:
--- Quote from: ThePiranha on January 03, 2008, 13:01:53 PM ---
I think you might struggle here Jon.
I dont think razz has quite yet reached the heights of nlhe. Why didnt you post a hold em thread so we could all get stuck in???
Oh, and you were chip leader with 23 left and finished 13th???
Tut Tut Tut Tut
--- End quote ---
But at least I was chip leader.
My aim is to get people to think - they have to think even more if it"s a game they"re not familiar with.
EDIT: I actually think it was just after this that I was chip leader of the tournament, so it"s even worse because it was when there were 21 or 22 left. But I was chip leader on the table here.
And I can"t think of a Holdem example - the question about when to check it down and when not to remains if anybody else wanted to post an example in Holdem or any other variant.
Swinebag:
a) was it because you had a good hand and wanted value. there was not too much to be gained from checking down JH and even if she won the main pot she would have still been in poor shape.
b) dont know why hank folded his made 9. maybe just trying to protect his position in the tourney and didn"t want to take on the cowboy.
I think you played it ok. dont think i"d have played any differently. JH being allin would not have been a factor IMO
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