Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Foggy on February 05, 2012, 14:19:27 PM
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Having had a decent run yesterday at the Genting series, and helped Mad Marty run around the car park in the snow partly undressed. I would like to raise the subject of live streams.
The viewing of hole cards has transformed the world of poker since it"s inception on LNP. Obviously with so much money now being on offer week in and week out, everyone is looking to cash in on the boom, whether through playing, supplying equipment, etc, etc. My point is, the new equipment that is capable of detecting the chipped cards and broadcasting information on the internet, is in someway giving an unfair advantage to certain players. The 15 minute delay helps the player who has friends relaying information back to the participant. Yesterday during the live stream broadcast ( where the "studio" was approx 7 feet from the feature table, the players were enquiring and receiving information about the cards that the players were playing or mucking after the hand was played. Mobile phones were not allowed to be used at the tables, but you could stand up walk 6 paces and speak or receive text messages. This cannot be the way forward for poker.
Having been fortunate enough to play on the TV in the past, the security was airtight, searched before entering the studio, accompanied to the toilet, segregated from everyone apart from your fellow competitors at the break, basically a million miles from the green room.
I believe the way forward is to delay the broadcast longer than the 15 minutes,say an hour also the "studios" should be non accessable to anyone other that the commentators, certainly not the players still in the competition, and finally mobile phones taken from the players on the feature table. I realise that information can still be available from friends, but this info perhaps could only be passed at breaks.
I would be interested in your thoughts, and ways to make our beloved game cleaner and straighter
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i think it wrong its not there for the players its there for Gentings to push there tour and get people interested in the tour with no regard for the players playing the comp
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a neccessary evil IMO - If you want big guarantees from a new tour then you need to let them do this.
Apart from a semse of huge embarrassment, I don"t think there is too much to be gained from finding out the hole cards 15 minutes later. Of course you can get info regarding opening ranges, bluffing tendencies, 3 net frequency, etc... but surely you can pick this up just sat at the table rather than watching the live feed on your phone (or getting the info from the rail)
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Pretty much cheating imo
Always gonna favour the players that go round in groups in the community and usually the younger players at that. Totally takes the game away when a few hands later players can find out exactly what cards you had.
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On one of the shows just a week or so ago on ESPN the pundits explained that the game was being streamed "Near live" as possible without giving too much away to help the remaining players. Shortly after that two players were against each other when a shout from the rails attracted a head turn. The pundit then said that he doesn"t like what just happened. Apparently someone shouted "He did this earlier with Jack-six" relating to an earlier hand which forced a fold. A Jack came on 4th and a fold eventually followed. The hole camera shown a Jack for a minimum pair. When the full picture became visible on the screen you could see a man in the crowd being spoken too by a "suit". The pundits said that they like the idea of delayed screening but it should not be shown on TV"s in the venue...
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I was watching Foggy on the live stream. I have to say it was pretty blatant. You even heard on the stream one of the players ask those in the studio about a certain hand. To their credit zimbler refused to give him any info.
However in EVERY hand I watched for 2 hours at least 2 players would get up from the table and text or phone.
Have live streaming sure but dont show the hole cards on just a 15 minute delay.
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It can work fine
However it needs organisation
AT DTD this weekend before the final mobiles were taken off every finalist, and returned when they exited/end of final
You also cannot view the stream within the club, there is a block on the stream
Put some safeguards such as these in and you can have a live stream that enhances the viewer experience at home (and hole cards certainly do that) whilst most importantly increasing confidence in the integrity of the game
If you are running a live stream for 4 days with hole cards on a 15 minute delay its a bit more complicated than just a final, but not too difficult to get players to release their phones while on the feature table
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Agree with Rich - don"t ban it... just make it work properly.
I was on TV table at the Genting players championship last year. In the players notes issued before the event, they said no mobiles allowed at the TV table...... but it was so blatantly ignored. I complained to the TD at one point when a guy in a OneWay hoody was getting coaching via text from Roberto Romanello - he was being told specifically how he should have played certain hands. TD said he was powerless to stop it.
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TD said he was powerless to stop it.
He is not. If necessary all players entering the event sin a waiver when they enter re use of mobile phones, much like they do when they agree to appear on camera shots for tv coverage etc
TDs just need to put the integrity of the game first, and not duck the issue as it is the easy option.
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Don"t think I"d be happy with someone taking my MP3 player away.
Why do we need to show hole cards on a (near) live stream anyway?
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pretty sure there was like a bar code or somthing similar on the back of the cards at genting yesterday, so your cards are picked up even before you have looked at them.
I dont agree with it personally, as someone above said that it suits the younger guys who belong to forums and have friends who are watching the streem etc.
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Don"t think I"d be happy with someone taking my MP3 player away.
No-one should have to give up something that is ONLY an mp3 player...but if that"s what you"ve signed up to..deal with it.
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pretty sure there was like a bar code or somthing similar on the back of the cards at genting yesterday, so your cards are picked up even before you have looked at them.
I dont agree with it personally, as someone above said that it suits the younger guys who belong to forums and have friends who are watching the streem etc.
There is a small chip in the card itself. A pack of the cards cost approx £150, therefore we use some of the older packs week in week out, and the small chip is visable on them.
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Taking the phones away not enough imo.
All the players do is go and ask their mates who are railing what the hands were.
Poker should be a game of incomplete information, instead to the outsider it just looks corrupt
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It"s like an app for donks
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Taking the phones away not enough imo.
All the players do is go and ask their mates who are railing what the hands were.
Poker should be a game of incomplete information, instead to the outsider it just looks corrupt
Mates in the building should not be able to see the stream, that is the point. block the stream in the building hosting the event, take phones away.
You have a game with complete integrity
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Taking the phones away not enough imo.
All the players do is go and ask their mates who are railing what the hands were.
Poker should be a game of incomplete information, instead to the outsider it just looks corrupt
Mates in the building should not be able to see the stream, that is the point. block the stream in the building hosting the event, take phones away.
You have a game with complete integrity
Until they go and ask their mates who still have their phones and are on the phone to their mates who are streaming it from home
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Taking the phones away not enough imo.
All the players do is go and ask their mates who are railing what the hands were.
Poker should be a game of incomplete information, instead to the outsider it just looks corrupt
Mates in the building should not be able to see the stream, that is the point. block the stream in the building hosting the event, take phones away.
You have a game with complete integrity
Until they go and ask their mates who still have their phones and are on the phone to their mates who are streaming it from home
sure. Perhaps I am naive, never seen it happen!
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This sort of thing is going to become a fixture of the live game going foward so players are going to have to adapt accordingly.
But, remember you can use live streaming to gather or "offer" information. If you think a player is continually been fed hands from the rail, why not use this to your advantage instead of being worried about it?
Even if you don"t utilise streaming in that way, realistically, if you find out that a guy bluffed you with Queen Ten an hour ago, are you seriously thinking he"s at it all of the time?
This will give about 5% of the info currently available through a HUD online. And I would guess the info provided from the rail will always be about the headline anomoly hand and rarely about ranges, bet sizing, position and all of that other good stuff that could hurt you.
It really isn"t anything to get worked up about in my opinion.
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I watched a lot of the streaming of the final table and it would have been very useful to have a feed of the hands albeit 15 mins late.
The play was pretty 1D so if you were being fed decent info it could give an edge.
True a player could adjust but little sign of it.
If some of the players can gain an edge then it distorts the game (unless you give everyone full info!) hence you need to stop it being abused.
Much as it was very interesting that means killing the hole cards or increasing the delay.
Has it been debated on the Genting site - I have not had a chance to look.
L
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I like the streaming concept of seeing hole cards as long as it"s protected. As mentioned they should not stream it in the venue at all. The grey areas are like you guys say the railers on the phone to mates sitting at home ect. that comes down to the player then and i would class that as cheating.