Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: pokerpops on February 27, 2012, 12:50:13 PM
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Live £75 FO, with added £25 Bounty
30 runners
Starting stack 10000
Blinds 50/100 about an hour into tournament
Villain is to my immediate left. He arrived a little late but has been very active - raising pre, hasn"t limped yet, c-bets and when that doesn"t work he"s fired the turn too, and if necessary, the river.
Only been to showdown once when he called a river bet on a flushy/straighty board with A9 and won, beating the better"s A8..
I"ve raised a few times too, and he"s commented on my propensity to raise the cut-off on his button. I assured him I wasn"t doing it light.
STacks
Me - 9200
Villain - 14,700
One limper to me in SB I raise Jh Jd to 300 (there are no 25 chips in play so it"s 250 or 300 here
Villain 3bets to 950
Folds to me
I 4bet to 1800 and after huge thoughts villain flats
Flop - Ah 6h 4h
I bet 3100
Villain thinks for maybe 5 seconds and moves his chipstack over the line
??
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You"ve already got half your chips in the pit.....you must have had a plan...no!?
As played, you have to call.
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Raise/4bet slightly more pre.
As played bet/folding so big is the nut worst line I think. I probably check and decide what to do if he bets
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If you"re turning your hand into a bluff, your c-bet was way too big..... you"ve left no room to fold, and the call is pretty much mandatory. You have 4300 left behind, and there is 9950 in the middle.
No problem with your preflop play or your bet/raise sizing..... If he 5bets (which he probably will with hands that beat you), you can easily fold. If he folds, you gain table image. If he calls, he is generally doing so with a worse hand than you, and even though your are out of position, you have the impetus in the hand.
When it comes to the flop, there is 3750 in the middle. Once you"ve c-bet, it"s unlikely that he shoves anything that you can beat.... by c-betting say 1500, you find out the same info as you do when you bet 3100 - the difference being that you can still fold.
Put yourself in his shoes, and imagine how strong your play would look if you 4b pre OOP, then make a c-bet of only a third of the pot on an Ace high flushed board - it makes it a tough move for him to bluff.
Given that you have committed yourself with the c-bet size, he should know that you are committed to call if he shoves, hence he"s only ever doing it with a hand that has you beat..... so, it"s pretty certain now that you are beat, but you are totally pot committed. I think you have to call and pray that hearts are live for you.
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Do not 4 bet fold. Either call the 3 bet or 4 bet bigger oop.
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Like the 4 bet pre I might make it a bit moe maybe 2200. If u think he is gunna get bluffy then check shove flop if he bets. If he checks back u are keeping the pot small. Really don"t like the 3100. As played it"s a tough spot but I"d kick myself n call
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Your priced in so you have to call, i would of flat called and not re raised as its obvious that your losing to an ace or a higher heart flush draw with a queen or king. Pray and hope my friend
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Ok, I was villain here, Ac Qc
3 bet to win pot, when he 4bet I opted to flat and see a flop.
That flop"s pretty scary but from previous comments he 100% doesn"t have an A, let alone two of them.
He doesn"t have a made flush either obviously.
Thoughts on my shove over his committing flop bet?
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Ok, I was villain here, Ac Qc
3 bet to win pot, when he 4bet I opted to flat and see a flop.
That flop"s pretty scary but from previous comments he 100% doesn"t have an A, let alone two of them.
He doesn"t have a made flush either obviously.
Thoughts on my shove over his committing flop bet?
Flatting the 4 bet OOP is pretty spewy just to hit an A or a Q that may or may not be ahead.
Can"t decide which posts suggest that the villain 100% doesn"t have an A, though you are right that he most likely hasn"t flopped a flush.
your shove is fine as there is a great chance you are ahead, but JJ is definitely calling now so good luck with the fade...
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You don"t think the other guy might c-bet large with AK, looking to protect his holding if he doesn"t have a heart?
Flatting a 4b pre for such a large percentage of stack with AQ is spewy in the least.
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JdFlat pre ainec
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Flat pre ainec
Yep
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From the conversation at the table I was pretty sure that he was 4betting with a pair rather than a big A, and even if it was a big A it would be suited, ergo, no flush.
I was, until this hand, chip leader at the table and calling the 4bet committed less than 10% of my stack with potential to either have the best hand postflop, or win the pot in position with a c-bet.
I agree - he has to call the shove as played. I think he kicks himself all the way to the cash tables if he misses though.
I wasn"t impressed with his playing of the hand - but I"m biassed because obviously the 3h arrived on the turn.
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It"s probably about time this got another airing, and in case you missed it the first time around...
[youtube=425,350] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9CBtSW0kA [/youtube]
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His play wasn"t that bad-certainly not compared to yours pre :)
Would be interested in the dialogue/tell that led you to believe he had a pair and no ace. I have zero powers in this respect so would appreciate knowing
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It"s probably about time this got another airing, and in case you missed it the first time around...
[youtube=425,350] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9CBtSW0kA [/youtube]
love that video... i laugh so much every time :D :D
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His play wasn"t that bad-certainly not compared to yours pre :) ouch!
Would be interested in the dialogue/tell that led you to believe he had a pair and no ace. I have zero powers in this respect so would appreciate knowing
I"m sure you"re far better than I am at assessing people"s ranges and abilities. I know the second sentence is intended as a rub, but fwiw there were a number of things that gave me confidence. He"d been chatty, and pretty open, showed his cards a couple of times and made comments about the play in other hands. All added together I didn"t see him 4betting without a pair. A decent pair at that.
Flatting the 4bet may be spewy - but what do we gain by flatting the initial raise?
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So u put him on a decent pair and 3 bet him with Aq?!?! Flatting keeps the pot small at a stage where u probably don"t want to play for stacks with Aq.
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So u put him on a decent pair and 3 bet him with Aq?!?! Flatting keeps the pot small at a stage where u probably don"t want to play for stacks with Aq.
No, I 3bet when he raises because I think AQ is decent against his raising hands with one limper and only me left to act. I"ve folded to his raises before.
When he 4bets is when I put him on the pair. 3bet folding doesn"t appeal much
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So u put him on a decent pair and 3 bet him with Aq?!?! Flatting keeps the pot small at a stage where u probably don"t want to play for stacks with Aq.
No, I 3bet when he raises because I think AQ is decent against his raising hands with one limper and only me left to act. I"ve folded to his raises before.
When he 4bets is when I put him on the pair. 3bet folding doesn"t appeal much
Which is why you should peel and fwiw 3 bet folding at 50/100 with AQ is miles better than 3 bet anything else
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When you put him specifically on a pair, how big a pair do you think he will 4bet with as opposed to set-mine with? Assuming a standard player might 4b TT+, but call 99-, that might mean that his range is TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA (with your specific read of a pair), 60% of which you are crushed by.
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When you put him specifically on a pair, how big a pair do you think he will 4bet with as opposed to set-mine with? Assuming a standard player might 4b TT+, but call 99-, that might mean that his range is TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA (with your specific read of a pair), 60% of which you are crushed by.
Well, when you put it like that...
:-[
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When you put him specifically on a pair, how big a pair do you think he will 4bet with as opposed to set-mine with? Assuming a standard player might 4b TT+, but call 99-, that might mean that his range is TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA (with your specific read of a pair), 60% of which you are crushed by.
bingo