Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: Sef on May 31, 2012, 01:24:10 AM
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I was just sitting thinking general poker thoughts and dream satelite packages to the WSOP and big poker tours. Then I thought of the biggest poker tour on the planet which is of course APAT :P anyway I got to thinking about satelites for APAT tournies and (correct me if i"m wrong) noticed that the satelites are usually seat only. Have you ever done/thought about putting together packages, like a seat and £x amount expenses and running feeders etc. for each event? Just curious as I love the idea of a package as opposed to just a seat and think it would attract a lot of interest.
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I was just sitting thinking general poker thoughts and dream satelite packages to the WSOP and big poker tours. Then I thought of the biggest poker tour on the planet which is of course APAT :P anyway I got to thinking about satelites for APAT tournies and (correct me if i"m wrong) noticed that the satelites are usually seat only. Have you ever done/thought about putting together packages, like a seat and £x amount expenses and running feeders etc. for each event? Just curious as I love the idea of a package as opposed to just a seat and think it would attract a lot of interest.
We (and by that I mean Des) has and it"s come up before.
In general the cost of an APAT weekend can range from almost nothing if it"s next door to two to three hundred pounds if you"re at the other end of the country.
So, assume a level of £300 to cover buy-in, hotel and transport then you need 10 players each paying £30 to generate every seat.
It"s not impossible but, in the past (AFAIK), the level of interest at that cost has not been there at that level of buy-in for a small number of seats.
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That surprises me, top 10% in a tourny to win a package 10x the buy in sounds like a good deal to me. was it tried with feeders at say $3-$6 buy ins? I for 1 would try to sat my way in to a lot more events if a package was there. Obviously it"s no good if the demand aint there though.
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This is something that is being revisited by APAT, both for APAT and other tour events.
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That surprises me, top 10% in a tourny to win a package 10x the buy in sounds like a good deal to me. was it tried with feeders at say $3-$6 buy ins? I for 1 would try to sat my way in to a lot more events if a package was there. Obviously it"s no good if the demand aint there though.
Not to say it won"t happen but, as I recall, super-satellites were mentioned and no-one seemed interested. No harm in raising it again though.
EDIT: Des replied before I"d finished so I"ll leave it there.
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Nice one, hope theres a positive outcome. :)
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Nice one, hope theres a positive outcome. :)
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I would love to see these re-introduced, however it was tried a few seasons back and despite encouraging prior feedback, they were not very well supported.
I think the community has changed quite a bit since then and the chances they may prove more popular have increased.
*Off to create staking thread for full package sats for next season*
Geo
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With any sats I much prefer seat only"s than packages so that I can make my own arrangements and more seats are generated in a particular sat. However with APAT, the expenses needed are probably higher than the buy in itself so what value would you put on an APAT event package?
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Nice one, hope theres a positive outcome. :)
Just noticed your sig Marty :)
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Nice one, hope theres a positive outcome. :)
Just noticed your sig Marty :)
New career as a Soothsayer :)
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With any sats I much prefer seat only"s than packages so that I can make my own arrangements and more seats are generated in a particular sat. However with APAT, the expenses needed are probably higher than the buy in itself so what value would you put on an APAT event package?
I would probably go with paulies figure of around £300. Wouldn"t necassarily need to be a package with a booked hotel and travel as such. Seat + expenses still gives you the freedom of making your own arrangements. That said a pre booked package would suit others in the sense that they can"t be bothered looking for their own. lol
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There are a few problems with "pre-booked" packages.
Firstly, you are chucking the admin at APAT who, basically, aren"t set up for it.
Secondly, what might suit one person might not suit another. E.G. Should the hotel be within driving or walking distance?
In my opinion, introducing an "Expenses" element leaves the whole thing open to abuse in that players might play with a view to "playing for a profit" by which I mean play the satellite with no intention of playing the actual event.
In the past, I"ve seen more than a few examples of players who have consistently won satellite seats that turn up on the exchange in short order....or perhaps I"m just a cynical paranoic. ;D
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Ok so with a £300 prize rather than a £82 prize what would your buyin be and how many runners do you predict?
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Ok so with a £300 prize rather than a £82 prize what would your buyin be and how many runners do you predict?
$22rb? As far as ppl playing the sats for profit, then just say seats are not transferrable.
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Ok so with a £300 prize rather than a £82 prize what would your buyin be and how many runners do you predict?
$22rb? As far as ppl playing the sats for profit, then just say seats are not transferrable.
That would be nice but then APAT would have to retain the whole package which, as I said, is a problem administratively (and quite possibly legally).
But c.$20 Rebuy or 1 add-on sounds about right.
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There are a few problems with "pre-booked" packages.
Firstly, you are chucking the admin at APAT who, basically, aren"t set up for it.
Secondly, what might suit one person might not suit another. E.G. Should the hotel be within driving or walking distance?
In my opinion, introducing an "Expenses" element leaves the whole thing open to abuse in that players might play with a view to "playing for a profit" by which I mean play the satellite with no intention of playing the actual event.
In the past, I"ve seen more than a few examples of players who have consistently won satellite seats that turn up on the exchange in short order....or perhaps I"m just a cynical paranoic. ;D
Good post Paulie with some good points, especially the playing for profit bit.
The previous packages were seat and expenses only, so no need for APAT admin to be tied up.
I love APAT weekends but due to location a weekend away is very very costly and I know there are many others in the same position.
Package sats have the ability to allow others like me to potentially be able to attend more events throughout the year.
As stated previously, the problem was having them supported. I genuinely feel that APAT community has never been stronger and that there is the possibilty that these would be supported better this time round.
Geo
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Keep the thoughts coming on this one, and we might be able to formulate a cunning plan. ;)
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How about something like a seat and a *cough cough* laterooms.com voucher for say £75, at least keeps cost of accommodation down ;)
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It"s not just the support of the APAT community but also we need the support of the poker site we use by promoting them.
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Packages for ECOAP would be good. Something like
3 night hotel stay in hotel within easy reach of DTD, Holiday Inn or Premier Inn ideal (£230)
Main Event + 2 Side Event Entry (£220)
Some cash towards travel expenses (£50)
Total cost around £500? (close enough)
A one off £50+5 Sat might get support with 1 player in every 10 getting a package
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Satellites for Vegas would be good... Buy in + flight + cost of accom + some spends maybe? Not sure on what that comes to, but guessing £2k would be close?
Feeders for a couple of months running on a Sunday alongside the league games and a final around a month before the event with direct buy in allowed.
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Satellites for Vegas would be good... Buy in + flight + cost of accom + some spends maybe? Not sure on what that comes to, but guessing £2k would be close?
Feeders for a couple of months running on a Sunday alongside the league games and a final around a month before the event with direct buy in allowed.
2k would be more than ample. Flights range from £500 to £700, a week"s can be had for under £400 easily in a reasonable quality hotel (not the IP). £1500 should be fine.
£30 sats should generate 50 players I would think. However, unless we"re really lucky, I don"t see us returning to Vegas any time soon.
Would be nice though for a DSE in November 2013.
I would definitely NOT run these alongside any league games, there"s enough going on on those nights as it is.
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I would definitely NOT run these alongside any league games, there"s enough going on on those nights as it is.
^ Has to be the winner of Single Most Sensible APAT Forum Post Ever ^ ;D