Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: pokerpops on September 25, 2012, 12:58:11 PM
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Pretty much what it says.
I"m in the "never" camp.
But there are occasions where we"re in a minority of one at the table and it becomes unpleasant.
Do you change your view in those circumstances?
Or when the game is, in essence, a "social" occurrence?
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Although I was the bubble at the GUKPT Stockton 6-max and didnt get a dime for 5th.. sigh.. I quite liked the red card / black card system they had for discussing deals etc. Totally anonymous way of doing it.. and if you didnt want to discuss deals no one was 100% sure who was keen / not keen.
ps.. above guess puts me into the "Shortstack" camp as was desperate for another Hendon flag.. but also into the "with friends" camp as well.. as I"m nice like that.. not that it happens that often.. cant think we"ve ever done it as part of our Stockon Massive games either.. mainly due to the fact its normally Stu that bubbles ;) x
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Those wanting a saver can GTFO
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Interesting question. I always say yes whether big or small stack.
However, I have twice refused to pay the bubble. On one occasion it was because the vehement NO BUBBLE chip leader had the cheek to change his mind after he had his KK re-shove beat by 2nd in chips AA and he became the short stack (GTFO) - we busted him and then laughed, waved etc. TBF I wasn"t the only one saying no at that point, and he wasn"t happy.
The second was when a guy who always refused suddenly in today"s game wanted to agree when he had 2 chips. I pointed out to him that I wasn"t going to let him "have his cake..." and we busted him.
There was an occasion in the Venetian where 16 left 15 paid I was a short stack and the other table wanted to pay the bubble. It"s not a question I raise when I"m a shortie so happy to agree if others are offering. An Israeli guy on my table was very anti and despite pressure from almost everyone he was the only one saying no. Anyway I ended up the bubble and to my total embarrassment four or 5 people got up from various seats and each handed me $20, and wouldn"t let me hand it back. I felt miserable to bubble after 6 hours and even more miserable to be given money in that way. Anyways I took Deb to that noodle place across from the card room with the cash and we had a nice tea on them, fair play.
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PS to those who said "when I am short-stacked", shame on you!
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Back on topic for those monitoring.
Rear-end stuff (ooerr) chopped out and moved.
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I would vote never but if I was on a table with mates, I would be happy to pay a saver
Unless it was Fatcatstu!!
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Played at Gala in Leeds, we were down to 28, 27 got paid 26 agreed to it 1 didn't. I was chipped up at the time but did not mind it even when it was coming out off 1st place. The guy who was short stack at the time got bustard then went on to verbal abuse the guy who said no, it was only for £40
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even when it was coming out off 1st place.
Never understood this logic.
Why should 1st place give up more just for a saver. If everyone agrees, everyone pays equally.
If there are 11 left (paying 10) and you want a £20 saver then everyone slaps £2 on the table to pay the bubble. Simples :)
Otherwise, GTFO
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Those wanting a saver can GTFO
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I clicked always but only done it one. I wouldn"t mind it if it aint taking much off top spot tbh. I never bubble :D :D ;D
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Think an extra option should be added ...
For when its late and playing "live" heads up for the next hour will depress me
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Think an extra option should be added ...
For when its late and playing "live" heads up for the next hour will depress me
That"s the next poll... Do we do deals, and when.
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People who have skill edge are literally burning money when doing deals in local live comps. Often recreational players won"t adjust ranges and u can raise almost every hand with little resistance.
Having said that if you"re a reg I can see how dealing can work out in the longer term
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It"s my pet hate when people fold their way to the FT then expect a saver, even though they only have a bowl left.
I would also never ask for a saver if I was a short/micro stack, though if it was offered, I"d be silly to turn it down.
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It"s my pet hate when people fold their way to the FT then expect a saver, even though they only have a bowl left.
I would also never ask for a saver if I was a short/micro stack, though if it was offered, I"d be silly to turn it down.
This.
I"m more likely to agree to bubble savers when playing with mates.
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Personally I always agree. The amount of equity given up is tiny, especially if the bubble cost is spread over a few places, and it is a small price to make the pain less for the unlucky person. The only time I refuse is in the example that others gave where the short stack has been a pain, or has been refusing to pay it.
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It"s my pet hate when people fold their way to the FT then expect a saver, even though they only have a bowl left.
I would also never ask for a saver if I was a short/micro stack, though if it was offered, I"d be silly to turn it down.
Exactly this, plus what George said.
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Personally I always agree. The amount of equity given up is tiny, especially if the bubble cost is spread over a few places, and it is a small price to make the pain less for the unlucky person. The only time I refuse is in the example that others gave where the short stack has been a pain, or has been refusing to pay it.
The equity u give up is huge by breaking the bubble early. And let"s pay everyone so no one gets "unlucky"
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I don"t like it at all, but I play in 3 card-rooms in Portsmouth and I"m the only one who resists. TBH I"ve given up resisting unless someone is really short and is being too optimistic hoping for a pay-off, cos a lot of the same people show up at the different FTs and you become pretty unpopular if you"re continually the bad guy. I"d never agree to it with strangers unless it was to my advantage. I agree absolutely with George"s point, that it is not only undermining your equity if you win, come 2nd, etc, but also undermines your chances of securing those places, as you are denied the opportunity to chip up on the bubble. So it would be better to agree it before you get to the bubble point if it is going to happen anyway, so that there is still a bubble you can exploit.
I like the red & black card process, though not how it was applied in The Phoenix last week. After a discussion, where I was, as usual, the only one dragging my heels on agreeing, they gave out a red and black card to everyone. All the others started throwing in the red one face up, but I insisted the the dealer could not accept them face up and they had to come back face down. As it happened, the dealer received a full set of reds. I knew it would be obvious anyway who it was if he got a black one back, but I wanted a precedent to be set in case of more-important future instances.
The worst one I have seen was at the PokerPlayer event in Bristol last year. 120 runners, with 12 paid. I went out 21st, and the other 20 then discussed doing a 20-way straight split deal where they would all get £500 each and just play for the remaining £2,000. It was almost agreed but, in the end, 2 people objected and it didn"t happen, but only because someone they didn"t like was short-stacked. Once he was knocked out, they agreed that the 15 remaining would all cash.
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I would never say never to this if it"s discussed as it"s usually a very small amount to let someone have some of their buy-in back and a bit of BFH. Would just prefer it doesn"t get raised TBH as we all know long before we get to that point what the payout structure is.
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Key with the red card/black card system in place is to appear to be really enthusiatic about a bubble deal then black card it. I did it in Stoke and no one suspected it was me. I chipped up from 120k to 300k just on the bubble. That"s how powerful it is!
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Key with the red card/black card system in place is to appear to be really enthusiatic about a bubble deal then black card it. I did it in Stoke and no one suspected it was me. I chipped up from 120k to 300k just on the bubble. That"s how powerful it is!
Let"s play spot the poker player. Genius George!