Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: IrishTom on November 10, 2013, 16:37:53 PM

Title: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: IrishTom on November 10, 2013, 16:37:53 PM
Ladies and Gents, as I start to look towards Season 8 this thread is simply for players to put forward thoughts and ideas to get the best possible out of the APAT Tour in 2014/15 - I absolutely make no promises, other than that I will read this thread and take on board all that is said before starting work on the tour prior to Christmas and putting a draft schedule to the APAT Board asap in the new year.

So, please feel free to suggest geographical areas to visit, venues, improvements to events, event schedules etc etc.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 10, 2013, 16:42:58 PM
:)

East Midlands
East Of England
Ireland
London
North East
North West
Scotalnd
South East
South West
Wales
West Midlands
Yorkshire

Attach a city / casino to each of the above?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 10, 2013, 16:49:05 PM
New casino for Cardiff event.
More lights for Glasgow event.
An APAT championship event in Bristol.
Drop Luton/Stoke.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on November 10, 2013, 17:24:08 PM
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 10, 2013, 17:32:51 PM
Quick note on the team events,

Agree with Dann that one is probably enough but also would prefer to see a qualification process rather than a selection process for the team.

Whether that be leading player for that country in the online rankings (obviously this affects welsh, scottish, english and irish teams more than it does other nations where maybe selection is the best way), Leading player for that country in the live rankings at a certain date but something along those lines.

If a player declines to play his/her place would go to the next in line?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 10, 2013, 18:26:27 PM


New casino for Cardiff event.
More lights for Glasgow event.
An APAT championship event in Bristol.
Drop Luton/Stoke.


Do you mean drop the Venues of Luton and Stoke or the Team Event itself??



lol, of course not!! (?!). That"s my favourite event by far.

I guess Luton/Stoke are both pretty big so work well for it, but it can be held anywhere with a capacity of 200+
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: MintTrav on November 10, 2013, 18:34:21 PM
Dangerous place, Luton.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Jon MW on November 10, 2013, 18:39:35 PM

...
Locations: Having Vegas/Prague is a great thing to boast, but surely its kinda against the APAT ethos?  ...  Tryin to promote the amatuer game, by holding events in these places seems a little odd.  ...


I"m pretty sure they have amateur players in the US and the Czech Republic as well as here.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: adilong1 on November 10, 2013, 18:40:47 PM
The team event, in my opinion should be a Ryder cup style pick with the most ranking points getting in the team and then the captain having two wild cards? Maybe a none playing captain too, who could coast around and support his players.

With Chris on the venues and it is about time one was held in Yorkshire! Genting at Sheffield was great at the GPS,

Like Danns point of the cut back on so many online games it"s ridiculous, people have family"s and partners/wife"s to keep happy and sitting down every night playing cards is out of he question.

The return of the online league has to be a priority as well, I"ve missed it this year and getting Yorkshire to the team event in Luton and playing myself was a great experience and one I would love to do again. I know Matt has explained  to me that there may be a change of site etc but it needs sorting.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AMRN on November 10, 2013, 19:12:18 PM
Reduce the dilution of the International team events to try and make them special again.

More focus on locations that the majority of the membership can afford to get to, and less focus on holiday destinations to satisfy the few that can afford it.  How much has the APAT brand really been expanded by the foreign trips to date? How many of those locals that have played in the foreign locations joined up with APAT.co.uk, or used the forum, or played other APAT events?

Love the festival weekend approach - makes the travel expense far more worthwhile.... (although please not in London, as it"s just cost prohibitive).

Get off Boss (seriously!).

Bring back Walsall in the APAT live schedule ;)

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Sugar_Free on November 10, 2013, 19:30:10 PM
My main wish for season 8 is that you guys give us more notice. You seemed to forget that we"re all amateur players with jobs, families and limited resources. We need more notice than you gave us this year to organise time off, get cheap hotel and travel deals and get our green cards.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 10, 2013, 19:38:48 PM

The team event, in my opinion should be a Ryder cup style pick with the most ranking points getting in the team and then the captain having two wild cards? Maybe a none playing captain too, who could coast around and support his players.

With Chris on the venues and it is about time one was held in Yorkshire! Genting at Sheffield was great at the GPS,

Like Danns point of the cut back on so many online games it"s ridiculous, people have family"s and partners/wife"s to keep happy and sitting down every night playing cards is out of he question.


Which games are you referring to?

Championship events wise - there"s only a main + a side to complement each Live festival (these are usually the weekend following the Live event).

The Mini League (current prize: Vegas Package) is an LPPL league that has run each month for years. We"ve now opened this up to APAT players, which I think is a good thing. It provides more choice and an option for people to play any night of the week - in fact, LPPL players have recently asked if I can increase the number of games here (from 1 a night to 3 a night at various times).

Which games would you like to see dropped?

Quote
The return of the online league has to be a priority as well, I"ve missed it this year and getting Yorkshire to the team event in Luton and playing myself was a great experience and one I would love to do again. I know Matt has explained  to me that there may be a change of site etc but it needs sorting.


Seems a little bit of a contradiction between this point and your first? We are looking to launch the online league ASAP, but we haven"t for the reason I"ve explained on a few other posts recently (and will explain again in reply to SR"s post below).




edit: corrected typo
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: IrishTom on November 10, 2013, 19:41:02 PM

My main wish for season 8 is that you guys give us more notice. You seemed to forget that we"re all amateur players with jobs, families and limited resources. We need more notice than you gave us this year to organise time off, get cheap hotel and travel deals and get our green cards.


I can assure you this will happen.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 10, 2013, 19:41:39 PM

Get off Boss (seriously!).


Not sure if you"ve seen my other posts on this recently, but this is a very high priority at the moment. We are in discussion with other networks with a view to move. However, this is not likely to be until mid-next year, as these things take a long time (there"s so many boxes to tick, hoops to jump through)... So, in the meantime, we are in other discussions re: partnering with another site until we have a permanent home. It is likely that the first online events to be held here will be the Online League (hence the delay that Adilong mentions in his post).
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Sugar_Free on November 10, 2013, 20:11:50 PM

The Mini League (current prize: Vegas Package) is an LPPL league that has run each month for years. We"ve now opened this up to APAT players, which I think is a good thing. It provides more choice and an option for people to play any night of the week - in fact, LPPL players have recently asked if I can increase the number of games here (from 1 a night to 3 a night at various times).



I agree 100% Matt, this is a great little league with a terrific format, decent prizes and for the most part friendly (not miserable) people. There is no need to play every night since 8 games gets you into the play off, but you can if you like. My only complaint, although a small one, is that it could start and finish a little earlier, but it sounds from what you say that plans are afoot to counter that.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: MintTrav on November 10, 2013, 20:17:59 PM

More focus on locations that the majority of the membership can afford to get to, and less focus on holiday destinations to satisfy the few that can afford it.  How much has the APAT brand really been expanded by the foreign trips to date? How many of those locals that have played in the foreign locations joined up with APAT.co.uk, or used the forum, or played other APAT events?


I thought you were in favour of overseas events:

I think that keeping APAT as a UK exclusive community would not be good for Amateur poker. The concept of APAT is about bringing value poker to the masses for affordable buy in - but I thought it was also about standardisation of the game.... and to achieve that, it has to gain exposure beyond the UK shores.

APAT is an excellent concept.................Why not expand to other countries and share the benefits?


Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AMRN on November 10, 2013, 20:20:52 PM


More focus on locations that the majority of the membership can afford to get to, and less focus on holiday destinations to satisfy the few that can afford it.  How much has the APAT brand really been expanded by the foreign trips to date? How many of those locals that have played in the foreign locations joined up with APAT.co.uk, or used the forum, or played other APAT events?


I thought you were in favour of overseas events:

I think that keeping APAT as a UK exclusive community would not be good for Amateur poker. The concept of APAT is about bringing value poker to the masses for affordable buy in - but I thought it was also about standardisation of the game.... and to achieve that, it has to gain exposure beyond the UK shores.

APAT is an excellent concept.................Why not expand to other countries and share the benefits?





Wow - rooting out 3 year old posts to show self-contradiction - nice one.   It was tried, but in my opinion has not been great, and has detracted from much of the good stuff that APAT was known for.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 10, 2013, 20:32:50 PM
Think the main thing in general with the overseas events is whether we are going to get active members online, at live events or on the forum but in reality they will play the one event and then forget about apat.

The aim was to spread the brand but i don"t think it works and it would be better to try and build up the brand even more in the UK.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: bear21 on November 10, 2013, 21:03:08 PM
Agree with all of the posts mentioned, but mostly with overseas events, why ????
for me it doesn"t enhance APAT  membership and is only a jolly for the few who are and able to afford it of which I am not one ( sob sob cry ) LOL
I have played in a few tourneys around the country and was amazed when I mentioned APAT that people still haven"t heard about us !!! More tournaments to highlight APAT etc to the british player is needed not overseas :-\
For the most APAT do a great job and I know the poker scene has changed from when APAT 1st began with more people following in our footsteps making things tougher

Ohh as above BYE BYE BOSS ( please )
:)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 10, 2013, 21:14:00 PM
Also please get rid of the Dusk till Dawn visits so i don"t feel dissapointed when i go to other casinos!
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Swinebag on November 10, 2013, 21:42:36 PM
Live.

Stick to a UK tour without branding them as English, Scottish champs etc.. Just calling them leg 1, leg 2 etc.... Will be fine. Stick with venues/locations that are well supported by both members and the venue. If this means no Scottish, Irish, welsh or Yorkshire legs then so be it. Like Steve, 3 years ago I was all in favour of foreign legs but they don"t seem to have added that much to the product. Will happily be persuaded otherwise though. I think there are people here who can organise their own foreign jollys with a big group of heroes without an APAT event tagged in.

Online:

Really don"t know what to do with the online league, but I only know I don"t want it to be a regional team event.

Online nationals. Love these events, though would like the BI to revert back to $50 oe

Team events:

Just the 2 please. 1 international based and 1 forum/community based.

Main events:

Mix them up a bit. APAT needs something different  to compete with the other offerings around the country. I"m not suggesting loads of variants as this puts a load of people off but the following could work assuming 8 legs

Leg 1 - NLHE
Leg 2 - NLHE mix max ( six max from 60 left - HU 16 out)
Leg 3 - NLHE headhunter
Leg 4 - NLHE
Leg 5 - NLHE /PLO ROE
Leg 6 -  NLHE mix max
Leg 7 - NLHE headhunter
Leg 8 - NLHE
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 10, 2013, 22:32:04 PM
Whoah Whoah Rob agree with most of what you say, but no Yorkshire leg????

Blooming Lancastrians :P
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on November 10, 2013, 23:04:34 PM
Mixmax is a must!!

Oh and OFC at Worlds please!!
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Swinebag on November 10, 2013, 23:55:06 PM

Whoah Whoah Rob agree with most of what you say, but no Yorkshire leg????

Blooming Lancastrians :P


What I meant was only go to these places if

1. They can fill it with 200+ runners
2. The venue is a viable partner

I would love an APAT in yorks but not ever having had one there is not a reason to decide to host one now.

I may be wrong but reason 2 is the reason why there has never been a yorks leg before. Similarly, there should not be an obsession with playing events in Scottish, Welsh and Irish venues, purely because the venues happen to be in that country. I would love to play in all those places if the event was up to scratch. You shouldn"t have to rely on the players creating a memorable event, the venue has to take some responsibility.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 11, 2013, 00:32:34 AM
Was only joking anyways :)

I hear good things about Sheffield but don"t know the ins and outs about which companies Apat will deal with or Visa Versa.

Selfishly would love one in Leeds as it would be nice to go to a venue thats easy to get home from after i bust day 1  :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 11, 2013, 13:05:28 PM
Nice post from Swinebag. Interesting.

Re: the format of events:

I think National Main Events should be kept as standard NLHE, as that is the format that everyone knows how to play, so we"re not limiting our market.

I do like the idea of side events being mixed up though. They could be changed to include a list like Swine suggests above, or ... hold 2 side events simultaneously, to allow players who are busted from the main to pick which they"d prefer to play... With one of the side events being something completely different - e.g. Open Face Chinese, Bournemouth Roll, No Deal or Deal, etc. Bring some fun to the proceedings :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 13:45:05 PM

I do like the idea of side events being mixed up though. They could be changed to include a list like Swine suggests above, or ... hold 2 side events simultaneously, to allow players who are busted from the main to pick which they"d prefer to play... With one of the side events being something completely different - e.g. Open Face Chinese, Bournemouth Roll, No Deal or Deal, etc. Bring some fun to the proceedings :)




Love how you"ve worked around any copyright infringment Matt.  Nice work.   ;D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 11, 2013, 13:50:22 PM


I do like the idea of side events being mixed up though. They could be changed to include a list like Swine suggests above, or ... hold 2 side events simultaneously, to allow players who are busted from the main to pick which they"d prefer to play... With one of the side events being something completely different - e.g. Open Face Chinese, Bournemouth Roll, No Deal or Deal, etc. Bring some fun to the proceedings :)




Love how you"ve worked around any copyright infringment Matt.  Nice work.   ;D


I shall have to teach you how to play it some time. It"s a lot of fun! :D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 11, 2013, 14:10:15 PM
Would love a deep stacked omaha 2 day tournament
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: fandango on November 11, 2013, 14:22:24 PM



Oh and OFC at Worlds please!!


Keep plugging it Dan son  ;D maybe one year it will be in the mix.. Never played it myself, but isn"t it a cash orientated format of a game? Or can it actually be a tournament format?? .. Dunno how many of us recreational amateurs play it?

Have to agree with a lot of what has already been said above and some great points brought forward.
Def keep the international to WCOAP and scrap the other 2 this would be a blue ribboned event to look forward to at the end of a season, regarding team selection think it"s fair to work on a points scoring procedure throughout the season, with only 4 places being up for grabs would make it a hard fought battle!!

APAT abroad? I will go with majority, but can say that I probably wouldn"t attend as cost etc doesn"t suit me.. Prague for me this year was a big decision but the honour of being skip and having a crack at ECOAP title defence  the clincher otherwise it was a def no-no. But in the same breath we have to remember a lot of our members really look forward to the Vegas experience so to scrap it with out a thought may be a little hasty.

Bring back the online league on Sundays for sure, but prehaps hold back a % of the prize pool each week and if enough revenue is generated then put the top 4 scoring players from winning team into a leg of a GPS or UKIPT leg?? With a % of any winnings being distributed among the whole of the team ( say those who have played say 10 of 12 games qualify ).

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on November 11, 2013, 14:37:05 PM
How many APAT regs went to Vegas this year?? Can"t be more than 20?? That should be a jolly surely, not a bonafide leg of the season??
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AMRN on November 11, 2013, 15:36:04 PM

How many APAT regs went to Vegas this year?? Can"t be more than 20?? That should be a jolly surely, not a bonafide leg of the season??


Does it carry ranking points?? If so, then this favours those with the deep pockets - not really what APAT should be about.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: amcgrath1uk on November 11, 2013, 15:45:47 PM
Assuming we"re looking at a 12 month season 8, I"d like to see something along the lines of...

May             WALES
June            LEEDS/SHEFFIELD/NEWCASTLE
July             IRELAND
August         MIDLANDS - DTD/COVENTRY/WALSALL
September    SOUTH COAST - BRIGHTON/PORTSMOUTH ETC
October       SCOTLAND
November     BRISTOL/MK
January        STOKE/MANCHESTER/BOLTON
February       LUTON
March/ April - WCOAP as usual at DTD

The thoughts along these lines are that every other event there"s something within a "relatively decent" travelling distance. There"s always the scope for one international ( European) event in there easily replacing one of the events ( or supplementing), one team event ( suggest January/February).

There"s a few additional things I"d like to propose/ask for:

1) Each venue to ensure they have enough dealers & valets to cope with APAT for the entire weekend. Especially if we are looking at festival type events - from a financial side penalties to the casino if they"re not meeting their end of the deal? Some of us are there all weekend no matter what, and just railing can get a little boring if there"s nothing to play.
2) As much as I adore Omaha, would it be possible to rotate the side events? Especially O8? NLHE Bounty, Turbo Deepstacks, 6 max?
3) Online - plenty of notice for satellites, online league in S6 was fantastic, to run in conjunction with the live events ( ie no league on the weekend of a live event), the $50 level for the online championships made them special imo. Also alternating the online side event to match the live event?
4) Sunday morning social activity - I know Matt has looked at this in some events, but if we can plan well ahead..
Football - 5 a side - should be easy enough to sort for one of the events
Cricket - T20, 10am start, finish by half 1 easy enough?
Pool - again relatively easy to sort?
I know the above isn"t everyones cup of tea, but will appease the majority?



Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 16:12:46 PM
If I were putting together an APAT tour to last a twelve month period, I think I would go for something like this :-

January - Leg 1 - Birmingham/Walsall
February - Leg 2 - Newcastle/Stockton
March - Leg 3 - Dublin/Cork
April - Leg 4 - Bristol/Cardiff
May - Leg 5 - ECOAP (Major European Venue)
June - Leg 6 - Glasgow/Edinburgh
July - Leg 7 - Luton/Milton Keynes/Reading
August - Leg 8 - Nottingham/Coventry/Stoke
September - Leg 9 - Manchester/Sheffield
October - Leg 10 - Portsmouth/Brighton
November - Leg 11 - WCOAP (Nottingham/London)

One of the legs would become the UK Team Championship each season, leaving 10 legs earning points towards a overall rankings leaderboard.

I"d look to change the main event structure to allow for a Day 1a on the Friday night, and a Day 1b on the Saturday afternoon (maybe with the option of re-entry into Day 1b if you get knocked out of Day 1a).

This would spread venue staff resource, and allow the venues to run a side event on the Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon, and at the same time, not leave the tour restricted to venues that can accomodate 200+ runners.

A matching online event with buyins around half that of the live event and 2 or 3 National Online leagues throughout the season (with more focus on the individual than the team).

Ranking points would be available for all these events, but with a weighting on buyin and number of runners, so it becomes more of an index across the whole season.

I like Rob"s idea of varying the side events, and I think the cash tour concept could fit neatly within that area.

I"d like to see generic weekly satellites into live events, whereby you can earn tokens that have maybe a 12 months expiry date on them, meaning more flexibility for players to satellite into their choice of events when they have the time to play satellites, and not just the few days that they are run in the lead up to an event.

I"ve never been keen on the additional reservation charge, but at the same time am aware that it is the best solution yet to resolving the balancing act of players wanting to guarantee seats well in advance, and APAT not having to deal with a bunch of no-shows.  I think the suggestion from Des to use those funds to improve the updating seems a sensible compromise.  I"ve not had to buyin to an APAT event for a good while, but am aware when I was booking travel and accomodation to work the event, it"s amazing the deals you can get well in advance, assuming you know you will have a seat.  If you satellite in, then when you use your token to buyin, you get refunded your fiver.  Minimum admin, and maximum flexibility for the players.

I"d also love to see the inclusion/return of a higher buyin series, somewhere around the £200/£250 mark.  The APAT membership is full of players that have experience in higher buyin tours, and plenty have had reasonable success in those.  Maybe played on the Friday night, to allow those players to then play Day 1B on the Saturday, or vice-versa.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 16:13:33 PM
LOL, just seen Asa"s post.

Both of us clearly bored on a Monday afternoon.   ;D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: amcgrath1uk on November 11, 2013, 16:31:13 PM

LOL, just seen Asa"s post.

Both of us clearly bored on a Monday afternoon.   ;D


Copycat  :P
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: jockey on November 11, 2013, 17:23:07 PM

Agree with all of the posts mentioned, but mostly with overseas events, why ????
for me it doesn"t enhance APAT  membership and is only a jolly for the few who are and able to afford it of which I am not one ( sob sob cry ) LOL
I have played in a few tourneys around the country and was amazed when I mentioned APAT that people still haven"t heard about us !!! More tournaments to highlight APAT etc to the british player is needed not overseas :-\
For the most APAT do a great job and I know the poker scene has changed from when APAT 1st began with more people following in our footsteps making things tougher

Ohh as above BYE BYE BOSS ( please )
:)
   
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AJDUK on November 11, 2013, 17:26:51 PM


How many APAT regs went to Vegas this year?? Can"t be more than 20?? That should be a jolly surely, not a bonafide leg of the season??


Does it carry ranking points?? If so, then this favours those with the deep pockets - not really what APAT should be about.


And how many of those that did go actually played it? I"m hearing not many. Something"s gone badly wrong there.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 17:37:53 PM
I think the Vegas event is an anomoly within the schedule.

It doesn"t do any harm for APAT to be seen to be running an event in Las Vegas, and as it"s in addition to what was already in place (and this season very close to the Glasgow event), it is scheduled to coincide with a group trip that has normally been planned ahead of the schedule being released.

Just like most of the overseas trips, they never seem to be able to match the first time.

This Vegas event was never going to compete with the first one, when a huge group piled over not just for the APAT event, but also the wedding etc etc.

The second trip to Vienna could not compete with the first trip to, errrrr, sort of Vienna.

Tallinn sounded a good experience, and Lloret De Mar certainly was.

For those going to Prague, I have no doubt that in Tom's capable hands, everyone will have a great time.  It"s a wonderful city, with lots going on.  Perhaps it"s scheduled a bit close to the Christmas period for more players to be able to afford it both financially and time wise, who knows.

I"d add Ireland to this discussion, albeit I"m sure the Irish based APAT contingent may well have similar thought on all the events in mainland UK, but there was a certain novelty to the first few trips to Dublin and The Fitz.  I think a lot of players have now been there and done that, and cannot justify the costs associated with that trip when you compare it to similar events on their doorsteps.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: jockey on November 11, 2013, 17:42:06 PM

If I were putting together an APAT tour to last a twelve month period, I think I would go for something like this :-

January - Leg 1 - Birmingham/Walsall
February - Leg 2 - Newcastle/Stockton
March - Leg 3 - Dublin/Cork
April - Leg 4 - Bristol/Cardiff
May - Leg 5 - ECOAP (Major European Venue)
June - Leg 6 - Glasgow/Edinburgh
July - Leg 7 - Luton/Milton Keynes/Reading
August - Leg 8 - Nottingham/Coventry/Stoke
September - Leg 9 - Manchester/Sheffield
October - Leg 10 - Portsmouth/Brighton
November - Leg 11 - WCOAP (Nottingham/London)

One of the legs would become the UK Team Championship each season, leaving 10 legs earning points towards a overall rankings leaderboard.

I"d look to change the main event structure to allow for a Day 1a on the Friday night, and a Day 1b on the Saturday afternoon (maybe with the option of re-entry into Day 1b if you get knocked out of Day 1a).

This would spread venue staff resource, and allow the venues to run a side event on the Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon, and at the same time, not leave the tour restricted to venues that can accomodate 200+ runners.

A matching online event with buyins around half that of the live event and 2 or 3 National Online leagues throughout the season (with more focus on the individual than the team).

Ranking points would be available for all these events, but with a weighting on buyin and number of runners, so it becomes more of an index across the whole season.

I like Rob"s idea of varying the side events, and I think the cash tour concept could fit neatly within that area.

I"d like to see generic weekly satellites into live events, whereby you can earn tokens that have maybe a 12 months expiry date on them, meaning more flexibility for players to satellite into their choice of events when they have the time to play satellites, and not just the few days that they are run in the lead up to an event.

I"ve never been keen on the additional reservation charge, but at the same time am aware that it is the best solution yet to resolving the balancing act of players wanting to guarantee seats well in advance, and APAT not having to deal with a bunch of no-shows.  I think the suggestion from Des to use those funds to improve the updating seems a sensible compromise.  I"ve not had to buyin to an APAT event for a good while, but am aware when I was booking travel and accomodation to work the event, it"s amazing the deals you can get well in advance, assuming you know you will have a seat.  If you satellite in, then when you use your token to buyin, you get refunded your fiver.  Minimum admin, and maximum flexibility for the players.

I"d also love to see the inclusion/return of a higher buyin series, somewhere around the £200/£250 mark.  The APAT membership is full of players that have experience in higher buyin tours, and plenty have had reasonable success in those.  Maybe played on the Friday night, to allow those players to then play Day 1B on the Saturday, or vice-versa.

If I were putting together an APAT tour to last a twelve month period, I think I would go for something like this :-

January - Leg 1 - Birmingham/Walsall
February - Leg 2 - Newcastle/Stockton
March - Leg 3 - Dublin/Cork
April - Leg 4 - Bristol/Cardiff
May - Leg 5 - ECOAP (Major European Venue)
June - Leg 6 - Glasgow/Edinburgh
July - Leg 7 - Luton/Milton Keynes/Reading
August - Leg 8 - Nottingham/Coventry/Stoke
September - Leg 9 - Manchester/Sheffield
October - Leg 10 - Portsmouth/Brighton
November - Leg 11 - WCOAP (Nottingham/London)

One of the legs would become the UK Team Championship each season, leaving 10 legs earning points towards a overall rankings leaderboard.

I"d look to change the main event structure to allow for a Day 1a on the Friday night, and a Day 1b on the Saturday afternoon (maybe with the option of re-entry into Day 1b if you get knocked out of Day 1a).

This would spread venue staff resource, and allow the venues to run a side event on the Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon, and at the same time, not leave the tour restricted to venues that can accomodate 200+ runners.

A matching online event with buyins around half that of the live event and 2 or 3 National Online leagues throughout the season (with more focus on the individual than the team).

Ranking points would be available for all these events, but with a weighting on buyin and number of runners, so it becomes more of an index across the whole season.

I like Rob"s idea of varying the side events, and I think the cash tour concept could fit neatly within that area.

I"d like to see generic weekly satellites into live events, whereby you can earn tokens that have maybe a 12 months expiry date on them, meaning more flexibility for players to satellite into their choice of events when they have the time to play satellites, and not just the few days that they are run in the lead up to an event.

I"ve never been keen on the additional reservation charge, but at the same time am aware that it is the best solution yet to resolving the balancing act of players wanting to guarantee seats well in advance, and APAT not having to deal with a bunch of no-shows.  I think the suggestion from Des to use those funds to improve the updating seems a sensible compromise.  I"ve not had to buyin to an APAT event for a good while, but am aware when I was booking travel and accomodation to work the event, it"s amazing the deals you can get well in advance, assuming you know you will have a seat.  If you satellite in, then when you use your token to buyin, you get refunded your fiver.  Minimum admin, and maximum flexibility for the players.

I"d also love to see the inclusion/return of a higher buyin series, somewhere around the £200/£250 mark.  The APAT membership is full of players that have experience in higher buyin tours, and plenty have had reasonable success in those.  Maybe played on the Friday night, to allow those players to then play Day 1B on the Saturday, or vice-versa.
 Seems like a well thought out post,i think it would be a very good season
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 17:43:49 PM
Whilst I"m typing a lot of waffle  ;) , what"s peoples views on groups attending events.  I think back to the early seasons, and players always seemed to travel to APAT events en masse.

Maybe I"m not as close to the live players currently attending the events, but it does feel a lot more fragmented.

What about offering a group booking facility in advance.  Groups can then sort shared travel, maybe looking to book the short stay type apartments as a base for the weekends.

Maybe give then a discount on the reservation fee if booking a group of players.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Des on November 11, 2013, 18:17:02 PM

Whilst I"m typing a lot of waffle  ;) , what"s peoples views on groups attending events.  I think back to the early seasons, and players always seemed to travel to APAT events en masse.

Maybe I"m not as close to the live players currently attending the events, but it does feel a lot more fragmented.

What about offering a group booking facility in advance.  Groups can then sort shared travel, maybe looking to book the short stay type apartments as a base for the weekends.

Maybe give then a discount on the reservation fee if booking a group of players.


You seem like a handy sort of chap (chip?!).  Fancy a job?  ;D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Swinebag on November 11, 2013, 21:16:26 PM



I like Rob"s idea of varying the side events.




I was actually talking about the main events, didn"t think my schedule was too "gimmicky" to make them side events

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: dwh103 on November 11, 2013, 21:18:37 PM
Team Events:

Big overhaul needed for me. Too many, as people have said - and there needs to be a format that"s more exciting than 5 SNGs. Can I think of one right now? Of course not, but the Internationals hold absolute zero interest for me.

Overseas:

I"m interested to see how well Prague does - would there be any possibility of tacking some of the less well supported events such as Ireland onto a festival? Whilst I"d prefer the focus to be on the UK, if APAT wants to establish a presence overseas, then could it be worthwhile focusing on just one country and try and build the brand in one place rather than the odd visit here and there?

Online:

For what it"s worth, I think the numbers that APAT are getting for exclusive comps on Boss are pretty impressive - hopefully any move will see a further improvement. For satellites I"d far prefer a "one and done" attitude toward feeders and super sats. I"m not going to play Monday, to qualify for a Saturday final. That"s two evenings just for an outside chance at a seat. Follow DTDs lead and run a turbo feeder into the main sat.

General:

I think the weekend experience has taken a massive step forward this season. All I would ask is for it to be pushed harder in the local areas and for the online resource to be far clearer - it"s really, really poor imo. Get some profiles up on the sites, some interviews, stats. A random ticker on the front page pulling up a profile. Make it about the people again.

For PLO and Heads Up tournaments (at the Worlds at least) - lammers please a la WSOP!

An Amateur Premier League type format thing would be awesome too. I"d love to see an APAT production with holecards and commentary etc. Big buy-in, give it a good look and use it as a promotional tool and a chance for people to play like the pros.

OFC +1
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 11, 2013, 21:41:10 PM




I like Rob"s idea of varying the side events.




I was actually talking about the main events, didn"t think my schedule was too "gimmicky" to make them side events




You are quite right.  Not sure about changing the main event formats too much, I think they come with a certain amount of prestige.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Matt D on November 11, 2013, 21:56:54 PM

For satellites I"d far prefer a "one and done" attitude toward feeders and super sats. I"m not going to play Monday, to qualify for a Saturday final. That"s two evenings just for an outside chance at a seat. Follow DTDs lead and run a turbo feeder into the main sat.


Good point. I actually tried this on Saturday for the Scottish Online. Will look at doing this for satellites for Live events too. Perhaps with standard feeder sats in the week, and a turbo feeder on the same night as the final satellite.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Laxie on November 12, 2013, 08:56:15 AM
Really don"t like feeders into feeders and also think having so many events in the year is diluting APAT. 

Also, if you"re keen to keep Ireland in the mix, The Cue Club in Killarney is a poker room that can hold (I think) 160 with the added bonus...they serve drink. Flights from Stanstead and Luton direct to Kerry airport and Connie usually sorts transport for players from the airport into town.

Flights from Birmingham, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Stanstead, Manchester & Newcastle into Cork and either rent a car or get the train down to Killarney from Cork.  That said, Cork is another option.  The Macua Club in Cork is pretty good and Ken is a nice enough lad.  
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 12, 2013, 11:34:31 AM

Really don"t like feeders into feeders and also think having so many events in the year is diluting APAT. 

Also, if you"re keen to keep Ireland in the mix, The Cue Club in Killarney is a poker room that can hold (I think) 160 with the added bonus...they serve drink. Flights from Stanstead and Luton direct to Kerry airport and Connie usually sorts transport for players from the airport into town.

Flights from Birmingham, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Stanstead, Manchester & Newcastle into Cork and either rent a car or get the train down to Killarney from Cork.  That said, Cork is another option.  The Macua Club in Cork is pretty good and Ken is a nice enough lad. 


That"s a good point from Dawn.  I"ve revised my schedule

Leg 1 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 2 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 3 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 4 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 5 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 6 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 7 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 8 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 9 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 10 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on November 12, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
No foreign trips, what"s the point? As said if anyone wants to organise their own Jolly Boys outing they can, that"s basically what the guys in Vegas have done, and then most of them didn"t play the APAT event!

Equally spread destinations across the UK, to make access fair to all. Glasgow was a well supported event (sold out) but APAT regulars were fairly thin on the ground, due to the distance, not a problem with this as I wont be in Brighton, but so long as the membership gets a fair crack at a few events.

Not a big fan of events landing on Bank Holidays, its not always popular at home to leave for a Poker tournament and be away Saturday and Sunday, but to add Monday into the equation rubs salt in the wounds.

Dont mess with the structure, it is spot on.

Club/Forum team event is great fun keep it going.

Euro Champs or world champs fine, knock the home nations on the head.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Sugar_Free on November 12, 2013, 12:22:44 PM


Not a big fan of events landing on Bank Holidays, its not always popular at home to leave for a Poker tournament and be away Saturday and Sunday, but to add Monday into the equation rubs salt in the wounds.



Been saying this for a few years now
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: TheSnapper on November 12, 2013, 13:50:47 PM


Really don"t like feeders into feeders and also think having so many events in the year is diluting APAT. 

Also, if you"re keen to keep Ireland in the mix, The Cue Club in Killarney is a poker room that can hold (I think) 160 with the added bonus...they serve drink. Flights from Stanstead and Luton direct to Kerry airport and Connie usually sorts transport for players from the airport into town.

Flights from Birmingham, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Stanstead, Manchester & Newcastle into Cork and either rent a car or get the train down to Killarney from Cork.  That said, Cork is another option.  The Macua Club in Cork is pretty good and Ken is a nice enough lad. 


That"s a good point from Dawn.  I"ve revised my schedule

Leg 1 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 2 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 3 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 4 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 5 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 6 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 7 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 8 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 9 - The Cue Club, Killarney
Leg 10 - The Cue Club, Killarney



Not sure if Cue Club is closed but Connie is now card room manager at the Macau. Cork hasn"t been a huge success for previous events hosted there.

The Macau club was banned from the posting on Ireland"s leading poker forum, there were some serious allegations made about the club, the forum admin demand all questions must be answered fully so as to retain permission to promote your club on their site, that they were banned might suggest they didn"t respond as required!

I do agree with Dawn on the bar issue, that imho is a critical component for an Apat weekend. I have always felt that The Sporting Emporium (http://www.thesportingemporium.com/) would be the ideal location for the Irish event.

Failing that, a hotel based event partnered with one of the many excellent independent operators, JP Mc"Cann being my personal top choice.

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Laxie on November 12, 2013, 15:05:17 PM
Blimey...so much has changed!  lol  I"ve not been on boards.ie in a while, so obviously out of the loop now.  The Cue Club was advertising last month on Facebook, but I"ve just checked and nothing mentioned since the Winter schedule post on October 7th. Sounds like a phone call or two will be in order if you aim for Ireland again in season 8.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: LombBomb on November 12, 2013, 16:42:16 PM

New casino for Cardiff event.
More lights for Glasgow event.
An APAT championship event in Bristol.
Drop Luton/Stoke.


New casino for Glasgow would be better.  Move it to Genting next year and you"ll have a tournament worthy of the APAT standard.  There are far more issues holding tournaments at the Alea than just lighting.

As has already been mentioned, reduce the amount of team events to make it more prestigious.  However I like the fact that the ECOAP is being held in Prague this year as it adds a bit of international flavour to APAT.  So as a compromise, why not rotate the ECOAP between the UK and mainland Europe so that UK hosts it one season and somewhere in Europe the next.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: hi_am_chris on November 12, 2013, 18:56:34 PM
Please purchase and transport to every event :D

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111191843992&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on November 12, 2013, 23:48:06 PM
Free Masseuse at all legs
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: pledge21 on November 14, 2013, 13:25:58 PM
HI All,

I am new to the APAT, when does the schedule for 2014 come out or if its out, how do I find it?

cheers
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Chipaccrual on November 14, 2013, 13:31:34 PM

HI All,

I am new to the APAT, when does the schedule for 2014 come out or if its out, how do I find it?

cheers


Hi Lee,

Welcome to APAT.  Season 7 rund until April 2014 and you can find the schedule here (http://www.apat.com/index.php/live-schedule/season-seven/)


Season 8 will probably run from around May 2014 - April 2015, and members have the chance to offer their views and thoughts on what they would like to see included on this very thread.

Feel free to add any comments you may have, all will be well received.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: galo5767 on November 15, 2013, 00:01:24 AM
Hi Guys,
I would like "Live" and "Online" rankings to be separate, as I don"t think winning a Live Nat merits more points than a 1st and 2nd  finish Online.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: PHIL_TC on November 15, 2013, 16:26:56 PM
Asked this every year and once again will chuck into the hat.. request to move Online Nationals moved to a Sunday please x
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AMRN on November 15, 2013, 17:08:28 PM

Asked this every year and once again will chuck into the hat.. request to move Online Nationals moved to a Sunday please x


Had opinion on this request every year, and once again will chuck into the hat... request to leave Online Nationals on a Saturday please x


;)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: MintTrav on November 16, 2013, 17:57:02 PM


Asked this every year and once again will chuck into the hat.. request to move Online Nationals moved to a Sunday please x


Had opinion on this request every year, and once again will chuck into the hat... request to leave Online Nationals on a Saturday please x


Had no real opinion on this every year, but I have come to realize that these often clash with live tournaments that I wish to play at weekends. As I understand it, Phil and Steve are more concerned with not having them on either Sat or Sun than with having them on the day they each asked for, so a Friday, for example, might satisfy both and allow a lot of players to take part and still play live events at weekends..................... request to move Online Nationals away from weekends please x

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: adilong1 on November 20, 2013, 17:45:59 PM



Asked this every year and once again will chuck into the hat.. request to move Online Nationals moved to a Sunday please x


Had opinion on this request every year, and once again will chuck into the hat... request to leave Online Nationals on a Saturday please x


Had no real opinion on this every year, but I have come to realize that these often clash with live tournaments that I wish to play at weekends. As I understand it, Phil and Steve are more concerned with not having them on either Sat or Sun than with having them on the day they each asked for, so a Friday, for example, might satisfy both and allow a lot of players to take part and still play live events at weekends..................... request to move Online Nationals away from weekends please x





Ooh like the sound of a Friday as I do nothing anyway?!?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on November 20, 2013, 23:52:24 PM
Not sure if this has been suggested yet but OFC? :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: KarmaDope on November 21, 2013, 10:59:26 AM
http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=14363.msg221464#msg221464

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=14363.msg221469#msg221469

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=14363.msg221470#msg221470

These were ideas I had that seemed well received in the Blog thread...linking rather than retyping!
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AAroddersAA on November 21, 2013, 13:15:45 PM

Not sure if this has been suggested yet but OFC? :)

Why not just arrange a game of this between ourselves at the worlds. I have no idea how to play it (I know how to play chinese) but can probably learn online and would play a small stakes game for fun. No £1 a point or anything though.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AAroddersAA on November 21, 2013, 18:23:40 PM
Live National Events
---------------------

Personally I would like to see the current format of having to go to each country changed. Wales does not have a casino that we can use and Scotland seems to suffer the same issues (although I thought Alea was OK). My choice of venues would be:-

Brighton
Bristol/Les Croupiers in cardiff
Walsall
Manchester
Newcastle/Stockton/Scotland
DTD

I would like to see the cash championship replaced with the APAT only cash tables that have been mentioned, the cash championship is great but on a Friday I would like to be able to play as cash table for a couple of hours then leave it and go to the bar, I think this would get quite a bit more support from the community than the Cash Championship. Side events of various formats would be good such as PLO, PLO8, 7 Card and HORSE.

Don"t mess with the main events, they have to remain a standard deepstacked nlhe tournament anything else will lose support.


Online Events
-----------------

The national events are fine. I like them on a Saturday, it is only one Sat night every two months and don"t need to be up for work the next day as they can run quite late due to their excellent structure.

Bring back the league but not as a regional thing, let people form their own teams. Split the prizes into individual and team.

If you are going to run sats then they should start at a sensible time. 8pm is perfect. This is APAT so most of the community have to work in the morning. 10pm is clearly too late for an APAT game on a weekday.


Team Events
----------------

International Event at worlds with a captain selected by the community of that country selecting the team (to get a vote you have to have played an apat event this season either live or online). Only one event.

UK Team Championship I would again rather we wre able to pick our own teams here.


International Events
--------------------------

A one off special event in addition to the normal tour would be fine. They are great for bringing the community together and I have met lot"s of people at trips away as everybody is one big group. They are very good for the community. Ireland would be ideal. This would need consultation with then community though.


Additional Activities
-------------------------

Lot"s of people within the community who can organize these. I reckon we will do pool again at the Worlds. Maybe Darts at Stoke or snooker even? Football and cricket can wait until the summer imo.


Players Committee
------------------------

This has been mentioned in the past and I can think of a number of people I would vote onto it who could represent the communities views and let the APAT board get quick and easy feedback.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: bigalhx3 on November 24, 2013, 15:59:18 PM
think you need to move the starting stack to the same as dtd with 25k to offer the same value comp that dtd and grovs25/25 put on
And a trip for the 1st time to the biggest county in the uk would be nice if poss

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Robbiebox on November 30, 2013, 22:15:25 PM
LIVE:

Competition is getting stronger all the time so APAT must do all it can to make events atractive for people to attend:

1. Stay Central ~ Don"t go North of the M62 or South of London, immediately puts half the country off. Lets have some new venues/cities (eg Liverpool, Birmingham, Sheffield, Reading, Leeds)

2. Get rid of the awkward £5 reservation fees, comments clearly indicate this is considered by many as an unpopular(-EV) and awkward way of reserving seats. Find an online provider with direct buy-ins and close the reg period in time so you can get the cash out, then sell any spare seats at the venue.

3. Compete with the other tours as mentioned previously and increase stack size to 20k or 25k, as only 15k starting stack is seen as not offering the same "value" of play. Just start a little earlier (or finish later) on the Saturday.

4. Keep the festivals, this is APATS strongest and most unique feature at the moment that attracts a lot of players.

5. Introuce/Replace a Team event with one that is based on an online league (see below)

6. For purely selfish reasons, I would love to see one of the Nationals being made an OMAHA event.

ONLINE

1. For the team competition, get rid of the unfair unequal size teams. Let people form their own teams (4 or 6?) and play a series of online games that lead to a live final (eg similar to the Vegas ones Genting used to run). Where online performance in some way will effect starting stacks and a contribution from each online prizepool goes towards the live final as added value. This will bring in new players to APAT as APAT members form teams recruiting their own non-APAT member poker playing friends.

2. Fridays do seem worth a try as the night for the main online events.

3. I have no interest really in international events and there does seem to be little in terms of people travelling from the UK for these.

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Tiger-flash on December 01, 2013, 00:34:28 AM
I like Asa and Leigh's comments about the live events  ;)
Also i think the online league should be an individual event along the top 5 or 6 players from each region playing for the National Regional cup as a one off live/online event.
This would be fair to the smaller teams but also still do the online cup like the last couple of tournies with players from any region (keeps everyone interested online)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Fatcatstu on December 01, 2013, 15:16:27 PM

LIVE:

Competition is getting stronger all the time so APAT must do all it can to make events atractive for people to attend:

1. Stay Central ~ Don"t go North of the M62 or South of London, immediately puts half the country off. Lets have some new venues/cities (eg Liverpool, Birmingham, Sheffield, Reading, Leeds)

2. Get rid of the awkward £5 reservation fees, comments clearly indicate this is considered by many as an unpopular(-EV) and awkward way of reserving seats. Find an online provider with direct buy-ins and close the reg period in time so you can get the cash out, then sell any spare seats at the venue.

3. Compete with the other tours as mentioned previously and increase stack size to 20k or 25k, as only 15k starting stack is seen as not offering the same "value" of play. Just start a little earlier (or finish later) on the Saturday.

4. Keep the festivals, this is APATS strongest and most unique feature at the moment that attracts a lot of players.

5. Introuce/Replace a Team event with one that is based on an online league (see below)

6. For purely selfish reasons, I would love to see one of the Nationals being made an OMAHA event.

ONLINE

1. For the team competition, get rid of the unfair unequal size teams. Let people form their own teams (4 or 6?) and play a series of online games that lead to a live final (eg similar to the Vegas ones Genting used to run). Where online performance in some way will effect starting stacks and a contribution from each online prizepool goes towards the live final as added value. This will bring in new players to APAT as APAT members form teams recruiting their own non-APAT member poker playing friends.

2. Fridays do seem worth a try as the night for the main online events.

3. I have no interest really in international events and there does seem to be little in terms of people travelling from the UK for these.




Since when has London been "central"? Also, it is a dump that is stupidly hard to get to/travel around and costs a fortune (IMO)

Also, some of APAT's most regular players have come from places such as the North East or South coast, why should they not get an APAT event near to them?

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AAroddersAA on December 01, 2013, 16:16:44 PM

Since when has London been "central"? Also, it is a dump that is stupidly hard to get to/travel around and costs a fortune (IMO)

Also, some of APAT's most regular players have come from places such as the North East or South coast, why should they not get an APAT event near to them?

London is not a dump at all, it"s an awesome place to go for a weekend. Book into the Easy Hotel Paddington for a tournament at the Vic and all the above issues are answered, it is easy to get too and everything is in walking distance. We could then get drunk on Edgeware Road, which has some damn fine pubs (proper pubs like). Also it is central for most of the population to be fair, although obviously not geographically.

Apart from that yeah and to be honest it is sometimes nice to go somewhere a long way away as it is somewhere different and a lot of people like visiting new places. I would love an event in the Newcastle area (Stockton would be great, although might need a few extra days). I certainly think we should have one in that area if possible.

I also think the starting stack size is fine 10K was too small but 15K is OK for this tour. We are already finishing at like 1am on the Saturday which imo is late enough.

Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Delboy on December 04, 2013, 00:37:06 AM


Since when has London been "central"? Also, it is a dump that is stupidly hard to get to/travel around and costs a fortune (IMO)

Also, some of APAT's most regular players have come from places such as the North East or South coast, why should they not get an APAT event near to them?

London is not a dump at all, it"s an awesome place to go for a weekend. Book into the Easy Hotel Paddington for a tournament at the Vic and all the above issues are answered, it is easy to get too and everything is in walking distance. We could then get drunk on Edgeware Road, which has some damn fine pubs (proper pubs like). Also it is central for most of the population to be fair, although obviously not geographically.

Apart from that yeah and to be honest it is sometimes nice to go somewhere a long way away as it is somewhere different and a lot of people like visiting new places. I would love an event in the Newcastle area (Stockton would be great, although might need a few extra days). I certainly think we should have one in that area if possible.

I also think the starting stack size is fine 10K was too small but 15K is OK for this tour. We are already finishing at like 1am on the Saturday which imo is late enough.




I agree with all of the above, except I don"t want to go to Newcastle. I want to INVADE YARM! :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Fatcatstu on December 04, 2013, 11:05:53 AM



Since when has London been "central"? Also, it is a dump that is stupidly hard to get to/travel around and costs a fortune (IMO)

Also, some of APAT's most regular players have come from places such as the North East or South coast, why should they not get an APAT event near to them?

London is not a dump at all, it"s an awesome place to go for a weekend. Book into the Easy Hotel Paddington for a tournament at the Vic and all the above issues are answered, it is easy to get too and everything is in walking distance. We could then get drunk on Edgeware Road, which has some damn fine pubs (proper pubs like). Also it is central for most of the population to be fair, although obviously not geographically.

Apart from that yeah and to be honest it is sometimes nice to go somewhere a long way away as it is somewhere different and a lot of people like visiting new places. I would love an event in the Newcastle area (Stockton would be great, although might need a few extra days). I certainly think we should have one in that area if possible.

I also think the starting stack size is fine 10K was too small but 15K is OK for this tour. We are already finishing at like 1am on the Saturday which imo is late enough.




I agree with all of the above, except I don"t want to go to Newcastle. I want to INVADE YARM! :)


Right, we need to get this organised, dont we?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: KarmaDope on December 04, 2013, 11:10:30 AM
Yes. Especially as I foresee another Vegas planning session. Ger has a big birthday in October 2014, don"t you know?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AAroddersAA on December 04, 2013, 11:15:59 AM




Since when has London been "central"? Also, it is a dump that is stupidly hard to get to/travel around and costs a fortune (IMO)

Also, some of APAT's most regular players have come from places such as the North East or South coast, why should they not get an APAT event near to them?

London is not a dump at all, it"s an awesome place to go for a weekend. Book into the Easy Hotel Paddington for a tournament at the Vic and all the above issues are answered, it is easy to get too and everything is in walking distance. We could then get drunk on Edgeware Road, which has some damn fine pubs (proper pubs like). Also it is central for most of the population to be fair, although obviously not geographically.

Apart from that yeah and to be honest it is sometimes nice to go somewhere a long way away as it is somewhere different and a lot of people like visiting new places. I would love an event in the Newcastle area (Stockton would be great, although might need a few extra days). I certainly think we should have one in that area if possible.

I also think the starting stack size is fine 10K was too small but 15K is OK for this tour. We are already finishing at like 1am on the Saturday which imo is late enough.




I agree with all of the above, except I don"t want to go to Newcastle. I want to INVADE YARM! :)


Right, we need to get this organised, dont we?

Thats an extra-curricular activity, not something we are likely to do during the APAT season.

You are of course 100% correct it needs to be done though and Stu is correct we need to get it organised.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Kronsdat on December 05, 2013, 23:39:57 PM
Can I just make (another) plea for something (not LPPL) in the North West of England please.  We have a significant number of APAT players, but haven"t had a "home" event for years.  Yorkshire I have to say, has been neglected for even longer!
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Zozzy on December 06, 2013, 01:28:42 AM

Can I just make (another) plea for something (not LPPL) in the North West of England please.  We have a significant number of APAT players, but haven"t had a "home" event for years.  Yorkshire I have to say, has been neglected for even longer!
As a Lancashire Lad myself I have to agree



.............................but I don"t have a problem neglecting Yorkshire (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-017.gif)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Paulie_D on April 22, 2014, 15:19:32 PM
Crossed from Season 7 WCOAP discussion

Quote

I know MTS was the only updater there, and was gonna struggle trying to cover 3 events a day, from midday to 5am.  Shame, as the community loves a bit of coverage.


I think that"s a little harsh because I think Matt at the very least was there for most of it. I only made a couple of days so I could be wrong but at times there were 5 laptops open ready for updating.

Admittedly, at times, they were trying to cover up to three events at a time so even then they were going to be stretched.

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

There are occasions when I, and some others, have jumped in to to add whatever we can (gratis) to any live update we can (sometimes with little or no appreciation [or even rubbishing] from some members of the forum) but I, and I"m sure others, often have other things we"d rather be doing.

To summarise, as it were

Without getting into debates about membership charges / extra costs again, an update team costs a non-negligable amount of money for no "actual" return.

If we want it them to continue we have to take what we can get, find some way of covering additional costs or jump in and help.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Dawnie on April 22, 2014, 15:53:51 PM

Crossed from Season 7 WCOAP discussion

Quote

I know MTS was the only updater there, and was gonna struggle trying to cover 3 events a day, from midday to 5am.  Shame, as the community loves a bit of coverage.


I think that"s a little harsh because I think Matt at the very least was there for most of it. I only made a couple of days so I could be wrong but at times there were 5 laptops open ready for updating.

Admittedly, at times, they were trying to cover up to three events at a time so even then they were going to be stretched.

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

There are occasions when I, and some others, have jumped in to to add whatever we can (gratis) to any live update we can (sometimes with little or no appreciation [or even rubbishing] from some members of the forum) but I, and I"m sure others, often have other things we"d rather be doing.

To summarise, as it were

Without getting into debates about membership charges / extra costs again, an update team costs a non-negligable amount of money for no "actual" return.

If we want it them to continue we have to take what we can get, find some way of covering additional costs or jump in and help.

as a newbie I would hae been more than happy to help out and update, surely there must be others the same who weren"t on the sauce and who weren"t playing? yesterday once I was home I was glued to the updates to see how my mate was getting on, so thanks to each and everyone who did contribute.
I might be going over old ground/teaching granny etc but did ppl get asked before hand to do a stint and help out? even if ppl did a Cpl of hours and went down on a rota that might have helped the rather overworked poor sausages who were running like loonies from event to event. If I am around at any of the events in the future you can count me in to help out :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: KarmaDope on April 22, 2014, 18:00:36 PM
I did wonder how long it would take for this thread to be resurrected!


Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.


This is very true. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much an update team costs. You pay an updater a daily rate plus expenses (hotel/travel/food etc). I"m not going to divulge confidential financial information from APAT but for an event like the worlds, a good freelance updater could charge (including expenses) 4 figures.

Now before you go "how much!" let me lay it out for you. As an example, let"s assume the Worlds are back at Stratford, during August Bank Holiday (as I cant look at next Easter) and we have the same schedule, from 19th August - 25th August. I have agreed to update for my standard rate (this is the number you dont get).

My train costs are £90.
7 nights at Stratford Travelodge (cheapest I found for this worlds) are £346 if I book today.
I generally don"t charge food expenses but when I did the ISPT, food allowance was £20 per day for 3 meals - so £140.

Even if you take out the food expenses, you still dont get much change from £500. Then you actually have to pay the updater. Don"t forget that most of the updaters are freelance, and have many other options - so you have to offer a rate that gets them to take your job rather than another one. In my case, I work as a contractor full time, so I would have to take time off work (unpaid, as a contractor) to cover the week (Tuesday - Monday), plus the second Tuesday to travel back home, plus probably Wednesday to recover from 7 solid days of running round a cardroom. (or, if you work at Wembley, 92 BLOODY STEPS)

Just ask yourself how much you would offer to do it for, solidly, for a week. Then add the expenses on top. Updating is expensive for the company and, tbh, not value for money at all. When Tighty did it for APAT, he was employed full time by APAT AFAIK so didnt draw extra costs. As much as we love MTS/Matt/Tom, they are not Tighty and we shouldn"t expect them to be.

Any help these guys can get, please, do so. But a fair warning - updating is a LOT harder than people think :)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: KarmaDope on April 22, 2014, 18:04:39 PM
Oh, and that was for one updater. For an event like the worlds, you need 2 minimum if not 3.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Curlarge on April 22, 2014, 18:54:18 PM
I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: KarmaDope on April 22, 2014, 18:58:05 PM

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).


Wonder if the techies can link #apatpoker tweets into this as well?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: MarkTheShark on April 22, 2014, 23:35:51 PM

I did wonder how long it would take for this thread to be resurrected!


Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.


This is very true. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much an update team costs. You pay an updater a daily rate plus expenses (hotel/travel/food etc). I"m not going to divulge confidential financial information from APAT but for an event like the worlds, a good freelance updater could charge (including expenses) 4 figures.

Now before you go "how much!" let me lay it out for you. As an example, let"s assume the Worlds are back at Stratford, during August Bank Holiday (as I cant look at next Easter) and we have the same schedule, from 19th August - 25th August. I have agreed to update for my standard rate (this is the number you dont get).

My train costs are £90.
7 nights at Stratford Travelodge (cheapest I found for this worlds) are £346 if I book today.
I generally don"t charge food expenses but when I did the ISPT, food allowance was £20 per day for 3 meals - so £140.

Even if you take out the food expenses, you still dont get much change from £500. Then you actually have to pay the updater. Don"t forget that most of the updaters are freelance, and have many other options - so you have to offer a rate that gets them to take your job rather than another one. In my case, I work as a contractor full time, so I would have to take time off work (unpaid, as a contractor) to cover the week (Tuesday - Monday), plus the second Tuesday to travel back home, plus probably Wednesday to recover from 7 solid days of running round a cardroom. (or, if you work at Wembley, 92 BLOODY STEPS)

Just ask yourself how much you would offer to do it for, solidly, for a week. Then add the expenses on top. Updating is expensive for the company and, tbh, not value for money at all. When Tighty did it for APAT, he was employed full time by APAT AFAIK so didnt draw extra costs. As much as we love MTS/Matt/Tom, they are not Tighty and we shouldn"t expect them to be.

Any help these guys can get, please, do so. But a fair warning - updating is a LOT harder than people think :)


Adam is bang on here and I endorse everything he says fully.

It"s a ridiculously tough job, and try as you might it"s hard to fully capture everything and portray it in a way that makes for good reading for the forum viewers.

Tighty clearly had/has a flair for the written word that myself and maybe others lack. It"s sure not for a lack of effort. But when action is frenetic players are moving around and you"re trying to relay action without impacting on the table itself it"s pretty rough and a thankless task. Add to that very long hours and many other duties and tasks to perform that are part and parcel of being there as an APAT rep as well as being an updater then it"s really becomes quite a thankless task.

As superb as a host that Aspers were we could pull very little information from them directly. Player lists, table draws, chip counts and player eliminations were nor easily or readily available so for the most part I had to do things very much manually as well as Matt did also when he joined us later in the week. Then add 2 often 3 tourneys going off at once and some unbelievable late finishes with barely any breaks or chance to recharge the batteries (our own as well as iPads and laptops!) and maybe you get a little idea as to why maybe the updates weren"t as regular or as detailed as maybe they have been in the past.

One thing I do think important also is that this is a two way thing. We as updaters bounce off comments and forum posts so we feel there are people interacting and viewing what is being reported on. It just adds to an overall experience and something when reviewed makes it feel more enjoyable.

I know this is something Des and Tom will be looking at for the future and finding ways to hopefully improve or re establish the quality you"re use to.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: LombBomb on April 22, 2014, 23:46:38 PM

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).


^ This is a fantastic idea.  The majority of us have electronic devices and access to Facebook/Twitter.  It wouldn"t be hard to either post your own updates on a common Facebook group or twitter hashtag.  It would make information from the tables more readily available.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: s4ooter on April 22, 2014, 23:47:06 PM
MTS, dont think i am knocking you in anyway mate.  I think you do great, my point was i just felt like you needed more support.

Oh and the pisstake comments when updating about TG had me in stitches!!
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: AMRN on April 22, 2014, 23:51:24 PM
At my next live APAT, if I bust early and am sticking around, I will lend a hand with live updates...
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Paulie_D on April 23, 2014, 12:52:53 PM

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.



Just use the hashtag #apatpoker or whatever (we could decide on individual one per event). That"s searchable on Twitter and FB.

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/apatpoker?fref=ts

https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23apatpoker


No need for special groups at all AFAIK.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: Paulie_D on April 23, 2014, 16:10:36 PM
I forgot to mention that posting on the forum does not require firing up a browser on your mobile device.

The APAT forum supports Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/) for easy posting. I use it all the time.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: adilong1 on April 23, 2014, 16:59:42 PM
Erm, one in Yorkshire would be  Ah  ;D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Paulie_D on April 28, 2014, 15:13:40 PM
My Big Wish for S8

Quote

The usual issue about booking hotels is the amount of advance notice. With ample (and I"m talking months) notice, deals / discounts are nearly always available for the casual visitor...I do my best to point them out where I can.

Unfortunately, and it"s sometimes common, the final details of APAT events aren"t nailed down until quiet late which has been the cause of some niggles in the past. I know this is one of the things Tom (and Des) want to address for S8.


A nailed down schedule for the whole year...soon
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: CW86 on April 28, 2014, 17:44:56 PM
Will expect usual Apat excellence for upcoming season! However please please please revert the main event back to a 45 min clock with normal starting stack. Apats huge usp is the deep stacked nature of the events throughout and this years main did get really shallow around levels 18-20 unlike any i have known before
Title: Re: APAT Season 8
Post by: jockey on April 28, 2014, 19:45:06 PM


Can I just make (another) plea for something (not LPPL) in the North West of England please.  We have a significant number of APAT players, but haven"t had a "home" event for years.  Yorkshire I have to say, has been neglected for even longer!
As a Lancashire Lad myself I have to agree



.............................but I don"t have a problem neglecting Yorkshire (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-017.gif)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        BOO
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: IrishTom on April 28, 2014, 20:34:36 PM

Will expect usual Apat excellence for upcoming season! However please please please revert the main event back to a 45 min clock with normal starting stack. Apats huge usp is the deep stacked nature of the events throughout and this years main did get really shallow around levels 18-20 unlike any i have known before


To be fair Chris, WCOAP did attract a huge field and had to be played out over 2 days (whilst not dragging on into the early hours of Bank Hol Monday after a very long week) - so in essence I believe the 20k/40 min for WCOAP was an acceptable (matter of opinion!) and  good compromise.  HOWEVER, rest assured there is no intention to do anything different that the NORMAL 45 min clock for Season 8.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: LombBomb on April 30, 2014, 13:31:16 PM
Can anyone on the APAT team confirm when the Season 8 schedule is likely to be released?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: fandango on April 30, 2014, 13:37:57 PM

Can anyone on the APAT team confirm when the Season 8 schedule is likely to be released?


Ohhhhh I will not I repeat will not be the first to say it!!!
Title: Re:
Post by: Paulie_D on April 30, 2014, 13:58:34 PM
I was going to but I bottled it.  :-P
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: KarmaDope on April 30, 2014, 14:03:31 PM
Can see the reaction in APAT Towers now...

(http://whatgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/funny-gifs-exams-soon.gif)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: DodgyEnd (Tom APAT.be) on April 30, 2014, 14:15:08 PM

Can see the reaction in APAT Towers now...

(http://whatgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/funny-gifs-exams-soon.gif)


LOL, now this is funny :D
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Paulie_D on April 30, 2014, 15:14:36 PM
I think he meant...

(http://a.gifb.in/052011/1307032252_atomic_bomb_mushroom_cloud_explosion.gif)


Oh...and anyone else who asks


(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19g4ycv0n85ohgif/original.gif)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: KarmaDope on April 30, 2014, 15:17:05 PM
More like

(http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20120914120348!Exploding-head.gif)
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Paulie_D on April 30, 2014, 16:47:29 PM

More like
...pic snipped



Scanners....excellent movie.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: cuzza23 on May 03, 2014, 21:23:32 PM
I totally agree with the whole issue of getting rid of English , Scottish , Irish championships etc and replacing them with a standards leg 1 leg2 etc, I would ideally like ( and I relies I won"t happen) all legs of the tour to be played at DTD, it"s fairly central  and easy enough to get to for all player (I didn"t play wcoap this year for the simple fact it was in London, and I live in Scotland).

I also think team events are based around people you know or how well you are known within the apat community and players are not selected on merit. This needs to be changed to a scoring system and a team championship played at the end of the season, it would them become more of an honour to represent your country
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: hi_am_chris on May 03, 2014, 22:36:58 PM
Would prefer the world team event to be a separate occasion and season finale after the world championships possibly with the champion of champions on the same weekend, then players selected from the rankings with the top players given first refusal. Accept though that the way it"s done at the moment is better for travelling teams as they have other tournaments to skink their teeth into besides the team event.

Also possibly an online equivalent of the team world championships with players selected from NOL rankings.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: CW86 on May 06, 2014, 13:00:35 PM


Will expect usual Apat excellence for upcoming season! However please please please revert the main event back to a 45 min clock with normal starting stack. Apats huge usp is the deep stacked nature of the events throughout and this years main did get really shallow around levels 18-20 unlike any i have known before


To be fair Chris, WCOAP did attract a huge field and had to be played out over 2 days (whilst not dragging on into the early hours of Bank Hol Monday after a very long week) - so in essence I believe the 20k/40 min for WCOAP was an acceptable (matter of opinion!) and  good compromise.  HOWEVER, rest assured there is no intention to do anything different that the NORMAL 45 min clock for Season 8.


Yeh certainly understand the thought process behind it, and I must admit I hadn"t actually gone deep in an apat main which has had 350-400 runners before so I didn"t consider the implications of having extra runners. Glad to hear it will revert to the regular clock in the future though
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Waz1892 on May 06, 2014, 23:14:54 PM
I"ve seen, regretable i"ll add, drift away from APAT, which kind of started in S6 i guess.

Now i was never a profilic attendee to all events, but it has to be said, S1-5/6 seemed to concentrate on UK venues, no team events, and a simple 1 per month, great value tournament.

Since S5 that seems to have drifted towards teams events, european trips. I understand the need to grow the brand/membership and the like, but imo, this has been at the cost of the core amateur player.

As they became less UK events, i had even less options to attend. I think in S6 it was like Aug then nothing until Feb that was within my reach.

Now the above is very mememe, but i think it has effected alot of others?
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Des on May 08, 2014, 13:37:48 PM
I think you"ll find a clear return to regular, UK based, events in S8 Warren.  We want this schedule to exclude as few of our players as possible.  Simplicity has been the watchword in planning the season.
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Jon MW on May 08, 2014, 13:44:14 PM
And what month would that season be starting in?  ::)
Title: Re: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Paulie_D on May 08, 2014, 14:20:56 PM
I could tell you but they"d kill me.. No Des put the gun down, you could hurt someone.....
Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Waz1892 on May 10, 2014, 09:30:15 AM

I think you"ll find a clear return to regular, UK based, events in S8 Warren.  We want this schedule to exclude as few of our players as possible.  Simplicity has been the watchword in planning the season.


Again, and selfish point of view from my part, however sounds great and good to see.

My original point was an observation not a critic by the way. APAT has done more from my game than i have myself!!

Title: Re: APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]
Post by: Paulie_D on May 16, 2014, 10:35:14 AM
It won"t be long now.

One might even say it will be.......SOOOON! :)