Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Phoenix1278 on May 28, 2008, 17:27:52 PM
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I have been playing poker seriously now for about a year and it feels like i have just hit a wall and cant go any futher!!
I watch, play and read abut poker almost everyday because i just love the game
My problem is no matter what i do and no matter what i try i always fall flat on my face, my best cards are beaten by donky calls and muppets just being stupid (more online than live). Drawing dead for hours on end and having every hand i play dominated by limpers, even when i raise to chase out the limpers they just call any way and some how win the hands to the showdown,
AA with a pre flop raise of 4x BB busted by KTo.
K8o all in (blind steal) busted by QQ (Q) on the river.
Etc Etc Etc Etc
My confidence is low and my game is suffering so much i"m almost at the point of quiting all together which i really dont want to do.
Am i just a bad losing player or does everyone go through patches like this.
i could really use the help if anyone wants to give some advice.
thanks
Phoenix1278
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If you are normally winning then this is variance and this is a down swing. However, running bad can cause a few leaks
1. Read some hand histories to convince yourself you are making good decisions. check out the donkeys on sharkscope (if you play SNGs). Seeing how much they are losing long term always helps me cope with a bad beat.
2. take a break for a few weeks then come back refreshed.
3. Alternatively, go down to micro levels and play tilt poker ???
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downswings are painful, but so long as you are prepared to play through them and stick to playing a decent strong game, you will be fine.
Important to not let yourself go broke during a downswing though - play within your bankroll at all times, and never risk so much that it will put you at risk.
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Play within your bankroll. If you are starting to crack up its time to take a break and get the thing into perspective.
If you are not having fun, take a break.
Try to play for fun and challenge instead of purely to win. Do everything to win but dont make this the ultimate yardstick of success. If you have played well and got your chips in with the best hand then pat yourself of the back regardless of the outcome - you cant control the cards.
Let the donks enjoy their wins, dont berate them. You dont want to chase them away. "Luck is the bait that keeps the fish coming back"
Good Luck
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Just one example of what i"m having to put up with at the mo happened to me last night.
I got my nut flush (clubs) on the turn a 9c just to be that it gave him a full house aces over nines.
Sick!
i"m taking some time off!
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Just one example of what i"m having to put up with at the mo happened to me last night.
I got my nut flush (clubs) on the turn a 9c just to be that it gave him a full house aces over nines.
Sick!
i"m taking some time off!
Unfortunately, situations like that happen to everyone. It"s what makes poker the frustrating game that it is.
I agree with the guys comments above and would stress that if you are not enjoying your poker at the moment, then taking a short break is not such a bad idea.
Everyone runs bad at some point and it appears that the poker gods are all against you at that time. But it is just variance and as long as you can be sure that you are making the the right decisions during the game, then that should be your measurement of success.
Over the longer term, the lucky donks who make the rash decisions cannot be consistently lucky.
One further point I would add is to review the games that you are playing. If you are playing the same site/level each night, you are going to come across the same players. Why not vary your choice of game.
Stick with it.
Leigh
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It would be callous of me to recommend Drink or Drugs to ease your pain, but.......
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It sounds like you"re taking too many risks. Try playing smaller pots and don"t risk your whole stack unless you have a lock. The thing about the 9c making your opponents FH is that you didn"t have the nuts and still put all your money in, and in fact this guy had you beat all along!
Also, K8 beaten by QQ? Erm, maybe poker isn"t the game for you after all...
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Read some poker books
I"m not being mean - honest - this will combine 2 of the recommendations. First of all it will make you take a proper look at whether you are playing well, or if you are getting into bad habits. Secondly, it just takes you away from playing for a bit and gives you a break.
Allied with this idea, is that you could learn a new variant of poker - it might be that you"re getting a bit jaded with hold"em. If you"re getting unlucky, this might lead to you playing worse, which obviously leads to your results getting even worse - a way out of this vicious circle would be to learn something new.
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OK two points that spring to mind. If you are putting your chips in ahead, and people are playing badly and calling and then outdrawing you - that"s a good thing. In a cash game you "always" win when you put your money in ahead - irrespective of the result. You want to play with muppets.
Second point, is that if someone calls your 4xBB raise with 74o and cracks your aces, is it a bad call by them pre-flop? They have risked 4BBs to potentially win 100BB+. I think you need to adjust your perspective on what a good hand is, and realise that a good pre-flop hand might be a very poor one once the flop has come down. More important than hand selection (IMO) is stack sizes and position. These are often far more important as to how a hand plays than the two hole cards.
All that said, for me table selection is the single most important thing in poker. Either in selecting the tournament to play (and what level of buy-in suits you), or choosing the cash game to pull up a seat at. Get that right, and you"re already half way there.
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Two things...
1. K8 v QQ i know it sounds bad but i had a made a pair of kings on the flop so i was leading on the flop and turn, his set came on the river. Also with the FH case if it was any other club i would have beaten him.
2. I have read through Harrington on hold"em Vol.1 and 2 and about half way through the third but i am planning on going through them again and i"m also planning on getting the theory of poker and super system some time soon.
I play a tight conservitive game so i try not taking to many risks and i do think about what they could have and my reading skills are getting better but there are not as good as someof the people i play with.
I do play Omaha every now and again but i do tend to stick to hold"em are there any variants you would recommend?
Thanks for all the replys so far
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Jon would recommend Razz - but he"s a freak.
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Jon would recommend Razz - but he"s a freak.
It"s almost like you"re psychic sometimes.
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Jon would recommend Razz - but he"s a freak.
It"s almost like you"re psychic sometimes.
If you ask nicely Jon will tell you about how he played against Jen Harman and beat her.
If you ask really nicely, he won"t.
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I have seen Razz being played but i have no idea on whats going on, any chance you guys can shed some light on that one for me :)
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Jon would recommend Razz - but he"s a freak.
It"s almost like you"re psychic sometimes.
If you ask nicely Jon will tell you about how he played against Jen Harman and beat her.
If you ask really nicely, he won"t.
I never, ever, ever bring it up - other people do.
It"s like Stud high/low
without the high.
And there"s no qualifier (like they have to be all under 8 for example)
It"s one of the easiest games to play, but people just make loads of mistakes playing it.
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If you"ve got 4 cards showing lower than an 8, bluff...
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If you"ve got 4 cards showing lower than an 8, bluff...
Standard rule for NLHE for some of the players here ;D
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Stick with it Phoenix, but I"d agree that you should change site/casino/card club if it"s happening too often.
My experience on-line is that the fish seem to be everywhere but I"m also finding they"re not restricted to the laptop. On Monday night I made a 4*bb raise with AK and was called by a guy (who hadn"t invested a penny in the pot beforehand) with Q5 ??? Needless to say, he hit another two 5"s on the flop and turn.
I"ve also went all in on the turn recently with AK on an Ace board with otherwise rag/rainbow cards, only to have one other player claim I was bluffing and call me with nothing but a gut shot. The fact I raised out of position pre flop should"ve rang alarm bells to him but didn"t. He hit his gut shot of course :D
It"s just one of those things that angers, frustrates, annoys you.........but it"s part of the game. Some of the best players in the world will either make moves, call or raise with garbage, in order to scare you off, outplay you post flop, gain information or whatever. Most of the people doing it at the level of play I"m at are just hoping to hit cards. 4 times out of 5 they won"t hit and you"ll win so it"s worth it to keep the faith.
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Another thing to remember is that poker is gambling after all. Sometimes losing is hard to take. Apparently winning makes it all better though.
Anyway, you want to hear an all-in suck-out? (I"ll assume that"s a yes)
I have :as: 9s
Flop:
js 6s :2s:
All the money goes in - my opponent shows td ts
Turn:
jh
River:
jc
And his full house takes the pot! Gotta love this game.
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I have been on the receiving end of a draw like that too.
What were the blinds, stack sizes, tourny for cash game etc etc?
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Think it was just an STT, but I was multi-tabling at the time and once the money went in I went to another table and then when I looked back I was like "What the...*$%!?" Took me awhile to figure out what had happened.
Another one:
My hand: :as: ah
Villain 1: ad tc
Villain 2: kh kc
Flop: ac kd :3h:
Turn: qc
River (You know it): js
Just had to laugh really.
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Oh c"mon where are all the 50 pence police when you need them!!!!
Bloody typical! ;D
I would suggest learning stud, as once you learn the basics, it will also give you the basics for stud hi/lo and razz (ie how the hand is dealt, betting rounds etc....not how to play)
If I get in a bad rut on holdem I normally go play a spot of Ohama hi/lo, which is possibly the most frustrating game, but one I know is a nuts only game.....or is that a game for "nuts" only?
One thing I would ask is what level are you playing at? are you playing mtt or stt or cash and at what limits? Obivously the smaller the buyin the greater the number of maniacs/idiots/losers.
;D
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You WANT people to call with these hands. If they didn"t, you wouldn"t win their money most of the time.
If they are a 20/1 underdog they can still hit. Most of the time they won"t and you"ll scoop the pot. When they do hit, you have to take it on the chin and accept that there is a chance element in poker.
If there wasn"t, I"d lose everytime I played.
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You WANT people to call with these hands. If they didn"t, you wouldn"t win their money most of the time.
If they are a 20/1 underdog they can still hit. Most of the time they won"t and you"ll scoop the pot. When they do hit, you have to take it on the chin and accept that there is a chance element in poker.
If there wasn"t, I"d lose everytime I played.
:D :D
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Has Phoenix cracked yet ? ?
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Well after a short break from poker after being sent away from work i am feeling a bit refreshed.
Only played a few games but i feel i could be getting back on track, not really been playing to many tourny"s just the odd freeroll and $3 buy-in to keep myself amused and to save the bank roll a bit and also trying a few different sites just to see what the play is like on them.
Basicly i have taken a step back and just trying to have fun playing and trying to feel comftable playing different to what i normally do.
i have not really won anything but i have pulled down a couple of big pots and mainly finding myself getting rivered out!! not to upset about that thou as i know i had played my A game :)