Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: TopPair2Pair on December 10, 2008, 00:16:57 AM
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Ok I want to refind (hehe see what i did there? refine>refind, legendary if i do sayso meself) my mid hand thought process for post flop play. I am sure it used to be better then what it has been like recently.
So, please do spoon feed me, what should I be asking myself when its my turn to act on each street post flop?
So I am asking you what should i ask me?
Does ne1 understand what i am talkin about? I am not sure i do,.
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not sure what exactly your after but i found harrington on hold em covers almsot all aspects of play
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well i know the basics, etc.,...But I am sure ppl have developed different questions to think about over the years.... and I am sure we have at least more then 100 years of poker experience on this forum! So just wondering if we can manage to collate a "think tank" checklist for things to consider when making decisions to call bet fold or raise on post flop streets!
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i think you need to know who raised pre and so on so on...
but imo a quick thought process in heads up pot
1 how has the hand played out so far (position, control etc)
2 history i have with the player that could help
3 his possible holdings/what he could put me on
4 texture of the flop compared to what we both could have
5 if he is first to act, try analize why he has done whatever he was supposed to of done....
6 how he would react to the raise call or check options...maybe i fol...no i never fold lol
7 how my option would affect further streets
8 forget all that and raise all in???? lol :)
i think it would be easier to answer if you gave us an example of a hand to work with or at least a situation...
ac :2d: :3d: 4s 6h
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agree with above post. Poker is not an easy game and to come up with a "post flop formula" ( I think thats what you are hinting at?) would be seriously dumbing the game down.
could also add
9. stack sizes
10. if its a tourney then what stage of the tourney are we in....(early stages, money bubble, bubble broken, FT bubble, FT, 4 handed, HU....)
But yes, hand examples please.....
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ok then, lets get serioUssssss sss ss s!
I shall dip me big toe into my tracker later and see what i can come up with, it would be better if the thread didn"t develop into a hand analysis topic though imo...
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ok then, lets get serioUssssss sss ss s!
I shall dip me big toe into my tracker later and see what i can come up with, it would be better if the thread didn"t develop into a hand analysis topic though imo...
to be honest hand analysis is the way to go here. Any book or training site that teaches post flop play will only do it through a series of hands in different scenarios.
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theres a million different things could be happening, iam the least serious bloke on the forum trust me, but we need something to feed on
go dip your toe ;)
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Yeah i guess..
But my intention at the start of the thread was to obtain some great thought patterns on this subject. ie We all approach poker and life differently subsequently developing different techniques and tendecies.
If it was possible to create a list of 101 questions and then selectively choose our favourites, then go on to define appropriate scenarios for our selective personalised questions we could be onto a winner, or just improve already good decision making qualities.
Hand analysis threada could miss the objective.
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ok...
my key thoughts...
position
chip stacks
players images
possible holdings
consiquences to my next move.
.........i prob missed something but the bath is running lol
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Yeah i guess..
But my intention at the start of the thread was to obtain some great thought patterns on this subject. ie We all approach poker and life differently subsequently developing different techniques and tendecies.
If it was possible to create a list of 101 questions and then selectively choose our favourites, then go on to define appropriate scenarios for our selective personalised questions we could be onto a winner, or just improve already good decision making qualities.
Hand analysis threada could miss the objective.
My higher level thinking on post flop play is:
miss flop - bet
hit flop - bet
and i refine this further with:
totally miss flop no outs - bet
partial miss runner outs - bet
hit a draw - bet
small hit - bet
big hit - bet
It keeps your opponents on their toes.
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In my humble opinion
1. -- Sober check/fold
2. -- Drunk -- all in
simple really
Seriously I dont think you can explain thought proces without hand & bet examples as there are so many different scenarios. Not necessarily your personal hand history but at least an example of say -- I have 9c 9d it"s raised and re reraised before me - that sort of think I suppose
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ok lol ummm... write off!
img/ [Imaged of a wrecked car] /img (cant be botherd to go find one)
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Just got sent this from FT. Any use ?
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The Script
Phil Gordon
April 4, 2005
In an effort to simplify my decisions, every single time it"s my turn to act, I try to run through the same script in my head:
Are my opponents playing conservatively? Aggressively? Tentatively?
What are some of the hands my opponents are likely to hold?
What do my opponents think I have?
Once I have the answer to the first question, and feel confident about my range of answers for the second and third questions, I move on to the most important question:
Should I bet or raise?
If I think I have the best hand, I nearly always answer "Yes" and I bet or raise.
If I think I can force weak opponents out of the pot with this bet or with future bets, I nearly always answer "Yes" and I bet or raise.
If I don"t think betting or raising is the right decision, I move on to the last question:
Should I check (or fold)?
If I think I have the worst hand, I nearly always answer "Yes" and I check or fold. If I think my opponents are strong, I nearly always answer "Yes" and check or fold. After a careful analysis, if I"m not sure if I should raise and I"m not sure I should fold, I feel confident that calling a bet (or checking) is correct.
I find that even in straight-forward and obvious situations, by running through the script I often find opportunities that other players might miss. And by asking the "raise" question before the "fold" and "call" question, I ensure that I am playing aggressive, winning poker.
Try using this script next time you sit down at the table, and see if simplifying your inner dialog forces your opponents into making more complicated decisions.
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Just got sent this from FT. Any use ?
Yup, perfecto, thank kindly!
Guess that insurance claim on the write off car worked out well, lol
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ok if you want to expand your thought process in post flop play there is 1 book i can think of that will help you.
It is called Professional No Limit Holdem by Matt Flynn, Sunny Mehta & Ed Miller.
I have not checked yet but i believe at this time of writing you can purchase the book in the pokerstars FPP store or amazon etc etc.
Essentially it is about REM: what Range do we put our opponents on, what is our Equity against that range, and what decision will Maximize our expectation. The decision process that a player should go through at every point in a hand is explained very well imo and will help all levels up to intermediate players. [hopefully high level players already think about this :o]
The book explains commitment thresholds and SPR [stack to pot size ratio] and there are some intresting concepts that you can add to your poker game.
I think this book will spoon feed a lot of what you are asking Toppietwo ;D
happy reading
regards
noble
Edit - the book is 2100 fpp in the stars store
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Thanks nobles, i will check it out, just ordered it.