Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 16:20:30 PM

Title: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 16:20:30 PM
hi, i recently opened an account with  titan poker, and deposited 20 pounds...... i made this up to 70 and decided to cash out....... i cashed out and had a new balance of zero..... at this point my gf asked me to close the account as she doesnt like me gambling, so i thought fair enough, and did it....... wen i checked my bank, titan have only paid me back my 20 deposit and are refusing to give me my winnings stating this......

"John, we coordinated your concern to our Relevant Department. Based in our
procedures that they have followed in dealing with players who identified
themselves as compulsive gamblers, your poker account must be closed, your
initial deposit must be given back to you and your winnings must be voided as
if no transactions with us has transpired."

Now this is complete rubbish, if i had lost the 20 pounds, would they have given me back? No.. of course they wouldnt.. i won the money fair and square and they are refusing to pay me........ does anyone know what i can do other than email them...... i must have some rights here.... any advice would be great
thanks
john
Title: Re: please help
Post by: PokerDan1984 on February 12, 2009, 16:25:27 PM
Never tell them u"re a gambler, maybe?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: AMRN on February 12, 2009, 16:41:52 PM
Well it"s certainly a new one on me!!

What I can say though is that Titan have a really good customer services department, reputed to be one of the best of all online sites.  I would ring them rather than emailing them - they have a toll free UK number 0800 066 4320
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 16:52:15 PM
i know.. i have never heard of this either.. if i had won the money unlawfully, then i would understand, but i won the money playing fairly and legitimatly..... I have tried calling them. but the advisors refuse to help me.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: oneill1970 on February 12, 2009, 16:55:41 PM
Title: Re: please help
Post by: George2Loose on February 12, 2009, 16:56:53 PM
It looks like fraud from their point of view I spose. Why would someone open an account, win and then close it?

You can perhaps see it from their point of view
Title: Re: please help
Post by: AMRN on February 12, 2009, 17:05:46 PM

It looks like fraud from their point of view I spose. Why would someone open an account, win and then close it?

You can perhaps see it from their point of view


I disagree with the last bit.... why should he see it from their point of view?  If he"s above board and has made a deposit to try it out, won, then wants his winnings, why shouldn"t he be entitled. If Titan refuse to talk to him now, that sucks.

If I went into a casino and put £10 on number 7, and it came up, and I decided to take my winnings and run, would the cashier refuse to pay me because they might suspect fraud?

Also, if surely it would be more trouble than its worth to try and go through the hassle of a credit card deposit then a withdrawal to try and launder £20!!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 17:13:56 PM
the most unbelievable thing is, i received an email from them telling them my account was closed, and 70 pounds (20 deposit, 50 winnings) had been paid into my account.... then i got one a day later saying they were only going to give me my deposit back...... so they completely lied...
i do have every right to close the account..... there is nothing stating in the terms and conditions to say this is unacceptable..... i have closed my account with many poker sites before.

the most annoying thing is, i didnt even win the money off them... it was from other players on net! i usually lose so it felt great to win, and cash out! does anyone know where i can take this? thanks
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chelsea on February 12, 2009, 17:48:56 PM
try here


http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/Client/detail.asp?ContentId=251
Title: Re: please help
Post by: duke3016 on February 12, 2009, 17:56:36 PM

the most annoying thing is, i didnt even win the money off them... it was from other players on net!


Spot on - where is the £50 then - did they drip feed it back to the punters who played against you. I think not -- It stinks, even if you said you wanted to close your account because you didn"t want the temptation of gambling they still owe you £50

end of (http://www.mfbb.net/reaper/images/smiles/tlab41.gif)
Title: Re: please help
Post by: AMRN on February 12, 2009, 18:13:52 PM
Ger, is there any post, or any situation, that you don"t have a suitable smiley for?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: duke3016 on February 12, 2009, 18:16:07 PM
(http://www.runescape.ex.lv/bildes/posti.gif)
Title: Re: please help
Post by: rubertoe on February 12, 2009, 18:18:11 PM

(http://www.runescape.ex.lv/bildes/posti.gif)


+1

This does Suck - can you let us know how you get on!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: AMRN on February 12, 2009, 18:34:40 PM

(http://www.runescape.ex.lv/bildes/posti.gif)




(http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s36/smilies-6844.png)


more imagination please!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: BOINGBLITZ on February 12, 2009, 18:51:25 PM
THIS beggars belief !!
DON"T let em get away with it !!
Contact as many of the poker mags that you can and give em hell mate.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: kinboshi on February 12, 2009, 20:13:27 PM
When you closed the account - did you say it was because you had a gambling problem?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: samuel9 on February 12, 2009, 20:25:43 PM
i would like to ask someone about a  hand i played a vew weeks ago is anyone on line
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 20:26:34 PM
i just said i wanted to close the account because i was an obsessive gambler and didnt want to lose the money... now this does definatly not give them the right to simply take the money off me for their own pockets!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: kinboshi on February 12, 2009, 20:51:29 PM

i just said i wanted to close the account because i was an obsessive gambler and didnt want to lose the money... now this does definatly not give them the right to simply take the money off me for their own pockets!


I think they are acting under the guidelines of their license.  However, not being an expert in this area I"d advise you to follow the link:


try here


http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/Client/detail.asp?ContentId=251


and contact someone there. 

I know if you tell them you have a gambling problem they are compelled to close your accounts and effectively ban you for a period (6 months is a figure I"ve heard before, but it might be wrong).  Holding on to your winnings is different to preventing you from gambling again though, and I can"t see that they"d be allowed to hold on to it permanently.

Worth getting "proper" advice though.  That link looks like a good starting point.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: bigredders on February 12, 2009, 22:54:28 PM
im sure whether he said he was a compulsive gamlbler or not, they cant keep his winnings. at the end of the day, it isnt their money to keep, as he won it off the players. its not like he won it off blackjack in a casino. what are they achieving by keeping his money? he can just deposit on to another website.

something very fishy going on!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: PokerDan1984 on February 12, 2009, 22:58:29 PM
You don"t think they are feeling the pinch of this credit crunch/reccision that badly do you and they want you to keep playing on their site to pay their wages or they haven"t got any money left to pay you apart from what you deposited because theat is kept seperate?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 23:06:16 PM
yeah, it should make no difference if i am a compulsive gambler or not.. that is my money, not theirs!  i have just sent the ma threatening email saying i am going to write to every poker magazine (and i will), and will literally take them to court if they continue to refuse to pay my money back
Title: Re: please help
Post by: oneill1970 on February 12, 2009, 23:12:12 PM
Here"s the William Hill story...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3797767/Compulsive-gambler-fails-in-compensation-appeal.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3797767/Compulsive-gambler-fails-in-compensation-appeal.html)

Note the bit where it says "High Court judge Mr Justice Briggs held that bookmakers were under no general duty of care to protect problem gamblers from the consequences of their compulsive behaviour."

The more I think about it, the more taking your winnings seems very, very fishy.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 12, 2009, 23:21:24 PM
yes very fishy........ they are talking to me, like they are doing me a favor by not paying me my winnings.... like it is their responsibilty!

this was a recent message they sent me.

Dear John,

Thank you for contacting Titan Poker.

This is Chris from the Support Team.

John, we appreciate your cooperation and patience on this matter. As we have coordinated your concern to the relevant department for the second time, we regret to inform you that an applicable procedure applies when a player claims to be a compulsive gambler. All deposits made into his poker account will be returned to the original payment method used provided that he has enough balance to cover for it. On the other hand, all winnings will be cut from the balance regardless if a pending withdrawal is already processed or not. In this way, we believe that we are helping our player with his problem by giving him back where he started from.

Please accept our deepest apology for the misinformation provided to you by one of our Support Representatives.

Thank you for your understanding.




it is driving me crazy how they think they can get away with this.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: oneill1970 on February 12, 2009, 23:23:44 PM
Ok - so what happens to your winnings?  What happens if you lose?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: George2Loose on February 12, 2009, 23:25:51 PM


It looks like fraud from their point of view I spose. Why would someone open an account, win and then close it?

You can perhaps see it from their point of view


I disagree with the last bit.... why should he see it from their point of view?  If he"s above board and has made a deposit to try it out, won, then wants his winnings, why shouldn"t he be entitled. If Titan refuse to talk to him now, that sucks.

If I went into a casino and put £10 on number 7, and it came up, and I decided to take my winnings and run, would the cashier refuse to pay me because they might suspect fraud?

Also, if surely it would be more trouble than its worth to try and go through the hassle of a credit card deposit then a withdrawal to try and launder £20!!


I was talking more in reference of depositing, cashing out THEN closing your account.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: antthecat on February 12, 2009, 23:32:52 PM
i have heard a rumour but never experienced it myself, it does not matter whether you are a gambler or a serious player if you win then the money is yours, its not like a casino has spotted a card counter playing blackjack and not willing to pay out, you won fair and square, if you picked all 6 numbers on the lottery and you were told that as you play poker you could not claim your millions, i think it would be shocking.

how come though when i have a bad night they dont stop me playing and losing my money and let me deposit again and again???
Title: Re: please help
Post by: TopPair2Pair on February 12, 2009, 23:39:54 PM
I hope you do get your money, at the end of the day they make enough. Can I ask how you closed your account and what you said to them when you did so?

This obv seems to have driven their decision to follow their "compulsive gambler" policy. I think its probably down to you to try and prove your not a compulsive gambler to allow them to follow a different policy which allows them to release the funds.

They are obv just following some sort of process flow chart, very badly might I add.

Title: Re: please help
Post by: duke3016 on February 13, 2009, 00:05:32 AM
Regardless of the reason to close the account, its your money - end of, if they don"t want you to play anymore fine thet"s their perogative -- it"s still your money.

In any walk of life that is stealing - be awkward write those letters - annoy the feck out them on the phone - don"t take no for an answer
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 13, 2009, 00:16:59 AM
yeah ur right duke...
this is not just about the money anymore (although 50 quid isnt a bad chunk).... it is a bout the principle of the whole thing and how they have just created this rule..... do you know the names of the leading poker mags?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: TopPair2Pair on February 13, 2009, 00:26:50 AM
I am sure there is some reasoning to their policy on this, and it makes sense in some repects, but I am not going to attempt to understand their reasoning here.

Ultimately if you said that and your not, then I doubt you have much chance of proving it to get the funds back.

May be worth ringing them and get wife to speak to them saying your not a compulsive gambler and she asked you to close account. And explain you only said that for X reason, and kindly request if they can change the reason for your account closure and give you your funds.....

I"ve only ever dealt with financial complaints before but if you put it like that they may be more reasonable, its probably more a case of "computer says no" due to the reason you gave for closure....

Anyway Good Luck, hope I havent caused any offence with my honest assessment!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 13, 2009, 00:29:34 AM
yeah i have already explained that i am not actually a compulsive gambler, i just used it as a figure of speech as i didnt want to lose my winnings... as mentioned by other people earlier, whether i am, or aren"t, it make no difference as i have not broken any rule or any law. my girlfriend has even emailed them trying to explain im not a compulsive gambler.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: rubertoe on February 13, 2009, 06:50:11 AM
Contact Poker Player Magazine...

Title: Re: please help
Post by: biffa85 on February 13, 2009, 10:25:10 AM
That sucks!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: texfitz on February 13, 2009, 12:12:02 PM
I think it"s a good read
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Swinebag on February 13, 2009, 12:58:05 PM
whilst it is indeed harsh that you are £50 down here, Titan are probably being as responsible as possible here.

At the end of the day, A compulsive gambler is compulsive gambler, whether he is a winning or losing one.

Paying you back + winnings would seem to encourage a gambler rather than deter one.
However, it is unfair that if you had have lost you would have not got a refund there. (though i do suppose we could all try that one if they did  :D)

I do think that if you are a compulsive gambler then Titan"s actions are for the best in the long run. The £50 means nothing to them so their actions are surely not money motivated but are simply possibly following guidlines/policies relating to "responsible gaming"

Title: Re: please help
Post by: Swinebag on February 13, 2009, 13:09:48 PM

yeah i have already explained that i am not actually a compulsive gambler, i just used it as a figure of speech as i didnt want to lose my winnings... as mentioned by other people earlier, whether i am, or aren"t, it make no difference as i have not broken any rule or any law. my girlfriend has even emailed them trying to explain im not a compulsive gambler.


I once rang up a for a taxi (when drunk). After 10 minutes it hadn"t come, so i rang them back and told them I was still waiting. They said they would be no more than 10 minutes. After 15 minutes i rang them back and they said they were really sorry ("its just coming now, pal"). Ten minutes later and  still no taxi so I rang them again and said that I was going to ring another taxi company as this was taking too long.

I rang the other taxi company and they said 45 minutes minimum. I said thanks but no thanks. I then rang the original taxi company and asked for a taxi.

What do you think they said?? What do you think they would have said if I"d have got my wife to ring up for me??
Title: Re: please help
Post by: stretcha22 on February 13, 2009, 14:47:44 PM
matter resolved.
i just sent them a link to this thread and which showed them i ave alot of support on the matter!
they finally agreed to refund the money.
thanks to the people that helped!
john
Title: Re: please help
Post by: antthecat on February 13, 2009, 15:26:46 PM
thats good news, glad we could be of assistance.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Swinebag on February 13, 2009, 15:28:01 PM
I"m sure my role as devils advocate helped seal the deal ;)

Glad you got your dough back

PS dont tell the G/F!!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: oneill1970 on February 13, 2009, 16:01:10 PM
Nice one!

Invest it wisely (...on the girlfriend, tomorrow, might be a good idea...).
Title: Re: please help
Post by: AMRN on February 13, 2009, 16:19:41 PM

Nice one!

Invest it wisely (...deposit it into PokerStars and turn it to half a million, and don"t tell the girlfriend...).


FYP!!!!!
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chelsea on February 13, 2009, 17:52:42 PM
well done.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chipaccrual on February 13, 2009, 18:21:44 PM
APAT normally take a cut of 20% for using the forum to reseolve financial queries.

Then their"s at least 8 APAT regulars who have given up their valuable time to post on this thread for your beneift. (10% per person)

So if you would care to ship the £50 on to the relevant parties, that would be fantastic.

And that way, you are assured that the avid gambler inside you, won"t just waste the £50 away, but instead it will be put to good use by quality poker players.   ;D

Next case.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: duke3016 on February 13, 2009, 18:29:10 PM
(http://img125.echo.cx/img125/7155/attention9ha.gif)
Title: Re: please help
Post by: oneill1970 on February 13, 2009, 18:45:21 PM

to good use by quality poker players.


Good use? Yes.

Quality?  In my case, I think not...
Title: Re: please help
Post by: HaworthBantam on February 13, 2009, 18:55:40 PM

APAT normally take a cut of 20% for using the forum to reseolve financial queries.

Then their"s at least 8 APAT regulars who have given up their valuable time to post on this thread for your beneift. (10% per person)

So if you would care to ship the £50 on to the relevant parties, that would be fantastic.

And that way, you are assured that the avid gambler inside you, won"t just waste the £50 away, but instead it will be put to good use by quality poker players.   ;D

Next case.


Are you not on holiday, Leigh ?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chipaccrual on February 13, 2009, 19:04:17 PM


APAT normally take a cut of 20% for using the forum to reseolve financial queries.

Then their"s at least 8 APAT regulars who have given up their valuable time to post on this thread for your beneift. (10% per person)

So if you would care to ship the £50 on to the relevant parties, that would be fantastic.

And that way, you are assured that the avid gambler inside you, won"t just waste the £50 away, but instead it will be put to good use by quality poker players.   ;D

Next case.


Are you not on holiday, Leigh ?


Errrr, yes.  Hotel with internet access ftw.

It"s 3 o"clock and a bit too hot for me, so sat on our patio chilling out catching up on APAT stuff.  I could mod from the Caribbean on a permanent basis you know.   ;D
Title: Re: please help
Post by: kinboshi on February 13, 2009, 19:05:12 PM



APAT normally take a cut of 20% for using the forum to reseolve financial queries.

Then their"s at least 8 APAT regulars who have given up their valuable time to post on this thread for your beneift. (10% per person)

So if you would care to ship the £50 on to the relevant parties, that would be fantastic.

And that way, you are assured that the avid gambler inside you, won"t just waste the £50 away, but instead it will be put to good use by quality poker players.   ;D

Next case.


Are you not on holiday, Leigh ?


Errrr, yes.  Hotel with internet access ftw.

It"s 3 o"clock and a bit too hot for me, so sat on our patio chilling out catching up on APAT stuff.  I could mod from the Caribbean on a permanent basis you know.   ;D


Blatant "I"m in the Caribbean" brag post imo.
Title: Re: please help
Post by: HaworthBantam on February 13, 2009, 19:08:19 PM



APAT normally take a cut of 20% for using the forum to reseolve financial queries.

Then their"s at least 8 APAT regulars who have given up their valuable time to post on this thread for your beneift. (10% per person)

So if you would care to ship the £50 on to the relevant parties, that would be fantastic.

And that way, you are assured that the avid gambler inside you, won"t just waste the £50 away, but instead it will be put to good use by quality poker players.   ;D

Next case.


Are you not on holiday, Leigh ?


Errrr, yes.  Hotel with internet access ftw.

It"s 3 o"clock and a bit too hot for me, so sat on our patio chilling out catching up on APAT stuff.  I could mod from the Caribbean on a permanent basis you know.   ;D


Just concentrate on enjoying yourself and leave the mod duties to us  :D
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chipaccrual on February 13, 2009, 19:12:53 PM
Photo evidence.  View from patio.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_X5lM7YiBEWc/SZXF7Dh8cZI/AAAAAAAAASo/ieAJAP6rjYQ/s800/024.JPG)

Title: Re: please help
Post by: monkeyman on February 13, 2009, 19:14:01 PM

Photo evidence.  View from patio.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_X5lM7YiBEWc/SZXF7Dh8cZI/AAAAAAAAASo/ieAJAP6rjYQ/s144/024.JPG)


Is that Walsall?
Title: Re: please help
Post by: HaworthBantam on February 13, 2009, 19:15:44 PM

"APAT Divisional Controller (Caribbean Region)"

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: please help
Post by: duke3016 on February 13, 2009, 19:16:38 PM


Photo evidence.  View from patio.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_X5lM7YiBEWc/SZXF7Dh8cZI/AAAAAAAAASo/ieAJAP6rjYQ/s144/024.JPG)


Is that Walsall?


Nah it"s the view from the wooden shack on the edge of the woods.......
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chipaccrual on February 13, 2009, 19:17:13 PM


"APAT Divisional Controller (Caribbean Region)"

;D ;D ;D ;D


How long did it take you to spot that ?

lol
Title: Re: please help
Post by: HaworthBantam on February 13, 2009, 19:17:22 PM

Photo evidence.  View from patio.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_X5lM7YiBEWc/SZXF7Dh8cZI/AAAAAAAAASo/ieAJAP6rjYQ/s800/024.JPG)



Either your camera is drunk, or your focusing is all to cock  :D
Title: Re: please help
Post by: Chipaccrual on February 13, 2009, 19:24:00 PM
FMP (That"s fixed my photo)   ;D
Title: Re: please help
Post by: TopPair2Pair on February 13, 2009, 20:11:23 PM


yeah i have already explained that i am not actually a compulsive gambler, i just used it as a figure of speech as i didnt want to lose my winnings... as mentioned by other people earlier, whether i am, or aren"t, it make no difference as i have not broken any rule or any law. my girlfriend has even emailed them trying to explain im not a compulsive gambler.


I once rang up a for a taxi (when drunk). After 10 minutes it hadn"t come, so i rang them back and told them I was still waiting. They said they would be no more than 10 minutes. After 15 minutes i rang them back and they said they were really sorry ("its just coming now, pal"). Ten minutes later and  still no taxi so I rang them again and said that I was going to ring another taxi company as this was taking too long.

I rang the other taxi company and they said 45 minutes minimum. I said thanks but no thanks. I then rang the original taxi company and asked for a taxi.

What do you think they said?? What do you think they would have said if I"d have got my wife to ring up for me??


Stop cross dressing/pretending to be your wife and we"ll pick you up?