Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: Danz0r on February 25, 2009, 14:05:56 PM
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With the WSOP announcing that there will be no rebuy tournaments this year, I wondered what everyone elses views were?
I personally agree with the decision and the reasons behind why they have been dropped.
It is true that people with bigger bankrolls can just rebuy, all in, rebuy, all in, rebuy, all in until they treble up.. I"ve seen it some of the gala casino tournies and its frustrating and not even poker, more like bingo.
I know some people on here also have higher bankrolls than others, which is why I find that the satellites are somewhat unfair when they are rebuys.
Some people can probably only afford a buy-in + 1 rebuy whereas others can afford 10+ rebuys. Its not really a level playing field.
I"m not saying theres a right / wrong answer to this and maybe some people prefer the rebuy structure.
No flames please about being a "tight bitch" or something...
-Dan
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Re-buys should be band, just like i-pods and sun glasses 8)
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great idea online, 3 dollar rebuys on stars although long can provide a massive return for a tiny investment
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great idea online, 3 dollar rebuys on stars although long can provide a massive return for a tiny investment
So can the National Lottery
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Personally I hate "em for all the obvious reasons. But I played the re buy into the APAT on line national last week, I didn"t re buy or add on and got quite deep, but some players re bought half a dozen times! I actually enjoyed the event, as it certainly was action packed! A different set of strategies are definitely required.
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Personally I hate "em for all the obvious reasons. But I played the re buy into the APAT on line national last week, I didn"t re buy or add on and got quite deep, but some players re bought half a dozen times! I actually enjoyed the event, as it certainly was action packed! A different set of strategies are definitely required.
Thats like saying "I hate playing poker unless I win", lol.
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firstly, if you are playing a rebuy as a single bullet then you are not really playing within your bankroll. You should allow for up to 10 buyins.
However, if you do go down the "single bullet" route and you can survive the rebuy period intact, then these tourneys turn into deepstacks with great value.
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Rebuy"s certainly have their place in the poker world. The OP was specifically asking the question about the validity of a rebuy satellite into the APAT live National events.
That"s quite a complex question. It really depends on your thoughts on getting a seat for these events. As we all know, the demand outweighs the demand, and long may that continue, otherwise what"s the point in holding the events ?
The way the current satellites work :-
$20 FO - 1 seat for every 7.5 players
$10 FO - 1 seat for every 15 players
$5 rebuy - 1 seat for every $150 in the prizepool
Now, if no-one rebought or added on then thats 1 seat for every 30 players, which in my opinion is ridiculous odds.
The first rebuy satellite for the UK saw the following stats :-
125 Buy-Ins
296 Rebuys & Add-Ons
Total Prizepool = $2,105
14 Seats + $5 for 15th
That"s an average spend of $16.84 per player
And 1 seat for every 9 players
If my bankroll meant that I didn"t want to rebuy and add-on, then I would be quite happy for others to increase the pot and hope that I can play premium in the first hour and build a stack.
It would be interesting to know how the players in the satellites answer this question :-
Why do you play the satellites ?
[ ] Because my bankroll won"t stretch to a £75 buy-in event without satelliting in
[ ] I could buy-in direct, but I want to try and guarantee a seat before the clickfest
I don"t know where the majority lie, but at a guess, I would say it"s the second answer (I might be wrong)
It is a tricky one though to get the balance right for gaining a seat in the National events.
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[ x ] Because my bankroll won"t stretch to a £75 buy-in event without satelliting in
[ ] I could buy-in direct, but I want to try and guarantee a seat before the clickfest
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did anybody else here the daniel negreanu rebuy story from the wsop from a few years ago......
apparantly he went bust and re-buyed a total of somthing like 27 times....but as soon as the re-buy period ended, he started playing properly,
( he had set the whole table up into thinking he was playing lke a maniac).
His table had more chips than any other table and he goes onto hit a few monster hands, and of course they start calling him down very lightly. He builds up a monster stack and goes on to comming 3rd overall.....he makes $70,000 profit, evan though he had to buy in 27 times.....
Now that is one of the best players thinking on another level.
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He was "stacking up" his opponents as he knew he was good enough to get those chips back when the rebuys ended. All he had to pray for was he wasn"t moved table early on - fortunately he wasn"t and was able to get a large percentage of the chips he"d bought back before going to other tables as a massive chip leader each time.
Must be nice to know you"re +EV against so many players :-\
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Hehe - rebuys are great fun.
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did anybody else here the daniel negreanu rebuy story from the wsop from a few years ago......
apparantly he went bust and re-buyed a total of somthing like 27 times....but as soon as the re-buy period ended, he started playing properly,
( he had set the whole table up into thinking he was playing lke a maniac).
His table had more chips than any other table and he goes onto hit a few monster hands, and of course they start calling him down very lightly. He builds up a monster stack and goes on to comming 3rd overall.....he makes $70,000 profit, evan though he had to buy in 27 times.....
Now that is one of the best players thinking on another level.
That kind of proves my point.
Okay, he made profit in the end, but 27 rebuys just stupid, no?
It may of been his "tactic" to make it look like he was playing bad and yes, he got the last laugh, but like I say, its more like bingo sometimes.
If any of you have been to a gala casino for the £10 rebuy night then you will know what i"m talking about.. pre-flop pushes with J7o.. crazy **** like that.
I didn"t want for this thread to be based around me either, I meant it in general APAT terms, for all members. I am happy to take 2 bullets at a rebuy, but I just wanted a discussion of the structure in general. I do realise that there are two freezeout satellites also available and I know that if I dont like Rebuys, i should stfu and not play them etc.
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it"s just another form of poker.........imo that it allows a LAG style that you cannot play in certain freezeouts with total maniacs who will call anything.
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did anybody else here the daniel negreanu rebuy story from the wsop from a few years ago......
apparantly he went bust and re-buyed a total of somthing like 27 times....but as soon as the re-buy period ended, he started playing properly,
( he had set the whole table up into thinking he was playing lke a maniac).
His table had more chips than any other table and he goes onto hit a few monster hands, and of course they start calling him down very lightly. He builds up a monster stack and goes on to comming 3rd overall.....he makes $70,000 profit, evan though he had to buy in 27 times.....
Now that is one of the best players thinking on another level.
That kind of proves my point.
Okay, he made profit in the end, but 27 rebuys just stupid, no?
It may of been his "tactic" to make it look like he was playing bad and yes, he got the last laugh, but like I say, its more like bingo sometimes.
If any of you have been to a gala casino for the £10 rebuy night then you will know what i"m talking about.. pre-flop pushes with J7o.. crazy **** like that.
I didn"t want for this thread to be based around me either, I meant it in general APAT terms, for all members. I am happy to take 2 bullets at a rebuy, but I just wanted a discussion of the structure in general. I do realise that there are two freezeout satellites also available and I know that if I dont like Rebuys, i should stfu and not play them etc.
You should look at a rebuy and multiply the buy-in by 10. Then you"ll look at them a little differently.
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Sure, but again I said this wasn"t about me..
I just wanted a general overview of peoples feelings about them, sigh.
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Sure, but again I said this wasn"t about me..
I just wanted a general overview of peoples feelings about them, sigh.
OK.
If you"re playing a rebuy, consider 10 rebuys as a guide, and if that"s too much for you, don"t play - or look to get lucky and not have to rebuy.
There is a skill to rebuys, and it"s different to a freezeout. Obviously, after the rebuy period it"s exactly the same as a freezeout. During the rebuy period, what is wrong with someone calling all-in pre-flop with J7o? They aren"t going to be a huge underdog to any other hand (no hand is that big a dog against one other preflop),and they are looking to double up or rebuy.
Yes, it favours those with larger wallets - but so do freezeouts. If someone is playing a £100 freezeout and has millions in his bank account - he isn"t going to be too bothered if he gets knocked out and loses his buy-in.
The satellite is a $5 rebuy. Ten rebuys is £35. Is that too excessive? The more who take multiple rebuys, the more seats there are on offer.
People don"t have to play it. They can win a seat in the freezeouts, or via the clickfest. It"s another option for those that want to take it up.
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term EV.
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term loss.
FYP
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term EV.
Or taking advantage of your reckless play Dan. ;D
(I do agree with your thoughts on this subject though. It"s cemented in my mind)
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term loss.
FYP
Seriously though, how often do you go into the freezeout period with a significantly smaller stack than many other players?
I used to go for the minimum expense route - and all too often found I was hamstrung come the freezeout period.
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term loss.
FYP
Seriously though, how often do you go into the freezeout period with a significantly smaller stack than many other players?
I used to go for the minimum expense route - and all too often found I was hamstrung come the freezeout period.
Rarely. I just wait for the big hands and play them fast looking for a double or treble up..... if I lose, I"m out and go to the cash tables.
In the last APAT round of satellites, I took a double buy in, and turned the 5000 chips into 29k at the end of the rebuy period and was chip leader. If my 45o (massive hand) had not held up so well early on, I would have left (ok probably not in an APAT sat rather than a standard cash sat - of course I would have chased the buyins)
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I think if you don"t like rebuys- don"t play them.
People seem to dislike them a lot but surely poker is about variety- if you could ONLY choose from tourney freezeouts the game could get pretty boring.
As someone who has spent over 400 quid in a 10 pound rebuy and a lot more in number 20 rebuys tonight could be interesting.....
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did anybody else here the daniel negreanu rebuy story from the wsop from a few years ago......
apparantly he went bust and re-buyed a total of somthing like 27 times....but as soon as the re-buy period ended, he started playing properly,
( he had set the whole table up into thinking he was playing lke a maniac).
His table had more chips than any other table and he goes onto hit a few monster hands, and of course they start calling him down very lightly. He builds up a monster stack and goes on to comming 3rd overall.....he makes $70,000 profit, evan though he had to buy in 27 times.....
Now that is one of the best players thinking on another level.
This was in 2004.
I was at the WSOP in 2006 when he had 48 rebuys. I spoke to a guy sat at his table and he was happy as Daniel was all-in blind every hand for a period and he built a nice stack, got moved to another table and then cashed. Daniel busted out before the money.
Daniel is part of the WSOP players advisory committee and has supported the removal of rebuy events.
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
I"d say you"re limiting your long-term loss.
FYP
Seriously though, how often do you go into the freezeout period with a significantly smaller stack than many other players?
I used to go for the minimum expense route - and all too often found I was hamstrung come the freezeout period.
Rarely. I just wait for the big hands and play them fast looking for a double or treble up..... if I lose, I"m out and go to the cash tables.
In the last APAT round of satellites, I took a double buy in, and turned the 5000 chips into 29k at the end of the rebuy period and was chip leader. If my 45o (massive hand) had not held up so well early on, I would have left (ok probably not in an APAT sat rather than a standard cash sat - of course I would have chased the buyins)
Generally I play rebuys with the registration, scope for one rebuy and the add on.
If I make it to the freezeout period I generally have within 10-15% of the average stack (above or below)
If you budget for 10 rebuys you might reach the freezeout period more often -but if you budget for a few you make more money when you do.
I think rebuys promote poor play that"s why I don"t like them. You might be able to call all in with J7os cards because you"re not likely to be that much of a dog and you can always just rebuy - doesn"t make it good poker though.
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hear hear!
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I think they"re great ;D See you in Cardiff. :D :D
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I think they"re great ;D See you in Cardiff. :D :D
+1
Best poker invention since the pokerchip.
See you in Cardiff. :D :D
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I think they"re great ;D See you in Cardiff. :D :D
+1
Best poker invention since the pokerchip.
See you in Cardiff. :D :D
+2
Super Smashing Great, Rebuys FTW IMO.
Lock up your sheep, see you in Cardiff :)
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I always line up with 3 buy ins - the first entry, one rebuy, and an add on. I certainly never go crazy and use as many as 10 buy ins - I prefer to play the other side of the equation and take advantage of those who do.
im the same here, although i rebuy striaght away and if i go out, im out. i personally dont think its worth multiple buy ins online as rebuy tournaments tend to be so top heavy prize structure wise. its a formula that has worked for me as other players bump up the prize pool so much. Especially in satelites for example into the sunday million it works a treat ;D
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came 2nd in a £10 rebuy last night at my local casino for £200
1 buy in and 1 add on was all that was required - in fact the add on probably wasnt but when everyone else buys an double up add on (3000 instead of 1500) im not gonna let the others catch up
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... generally I would run with the idea of budget for 3 times the buy-in ... money to be made at this price.
I played in an amusing re-buy qualifier yesterday for the $11k g"tee on Betfair ...
Betfair managed to find a whole 5 runners for their $15 re-buy for two $109 g"teed seats ... so it should have been a value sit and wait for the freezeout ...
First two hands I have KK ... busted both times ... so three buy-ins by hand three ... the cards kept coming and prescedent set we never made it to the freezeout period with me qualifying for $46.50 ... (32nd from 82 in the actual event)
Generally for more sensibly run ans structrued re-buys playing decent starting hands can create a decent stack at reasonable cost.
If there are people trying to pump the pot ... rub your hands ... wait for the cards and enjoy.
L