Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: Mikeyboy9361 on March 18, 2009, 09:12:28 AM
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Last night I played in the $10 +$1 sat for the WCOAP thing, and have to say it was a great tournament, we got to the final table with still plenty of play after 3 and a half hours. I donked my chips off from a handy 4th place to out in 9th in two consecutive hands! Doh. Great value for money if you are playing poker for the fun of the game.
Any way, this got me thinking, I do play primarily for enjoyment, but after nearly 4 hours and a 9th place finish I came away with nothing, and so that got me thinking about how the seats are allocated for the big live events.
I think I saw some where that there are 200 seats for this event? Well if that is the case if there are only approx 25 satellite seats that leaves 175 for fastest finger. Is that right? I missed the clickfest for Cardiff, and will 95% miss it again on Thursday, surely it would be fairer to give more seats in the Sats. In last nights Sat the 5 qualifiers got a $200 package, lets face it we are playing for a seat, and we don"t care too much about the extra $100, so why don"t we award 10 seats ( in this event) and say 25 in the more expensive buy in. This gets the ratios nearer and still allows people to click fest in if they can"t play the sats or are unlucky.
Interested to hear other thoughts?
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i agree with this, also the clickfest on thursday is for the main event? how do we enter the side events is it all on the same nite?
:as: kc me on 24k
ad qh mickey allin 8k hits straight grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :P
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i agree with this, also the clickfest on thursday is for the main event? how do we enter the side events is it all on the same nite?
:as: kc me on 24k
ad qh mickey allin 8k hits straight grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :P
Main Event Clickfest 19th March
Omaha Clickfest 20th March
Horse Clickfest 21st March
All at 9pm on the homepage of www.apat.com
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Not only did I take your Chips Cinci, but some ine elses as well, it was an obvious value call!!! ;)
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yeah u had to move there but yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy me arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
im ok now
thanx for intell :as: 4s da nuts :P
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I think I saw some where that there are 200 seats for this event? Well if that is the case if there are only approx 25 satellite seats that leaves 175 for fastest finger. Is that right? I missed the clickfest for Cardiff, and will 95% miss it again on Thursday, surely it would be fairer to give more seats in the Sats. ...
If you take seats away from the clickfest and give them to the satellites that makes it easier for you to get a seat.
So that"s what you mean by fair?
Because there are several people who either don"t play as well online, or who aren"t so good at satellites or who don"t play online poker at all.
Why is it fairer to make it easier for you to get a seat when it would make it harder for them to get one?
After all, these are live events.
So surely live players should be well represented.
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No I am not saying that, fair would be 50% clickfest, and 50% satellite. That is fair surely.
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No I am not saying that, fair would be 50% clickfest, and 50% satellite. That is fair surely.
So the people who play online can
1. Try to win a satellite for 50% of the seats and if they fail
2. Try to get a seat (from 50%) through the clickfest
But the people who don"t play online can
1. Try to get a seat (from 50%) through the clickfest.
How is that fair for online players to get 2 chances for a seat to a live event
but live players only get 1 chance for a seat to a live event?
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No I am not saying that, fair would be 50% clickfest, and 50% satellite. That is fair surely.
With the numbers we get for the satellites though, a 50/50 split would mean the satellites would be as good as a direct buy-in.
For a normal National event
$20 satellite = 1 seat in 7.5
$10 satellite = 1 seat in 15
$5 rebuy = Nornally around 1 seat in 10 at worst
At the moment we offer a reasonable range of satellite methods to meet most people buy-in"s.
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i pretty much agree with Jons point. We dont want to be going down the virgin festival route.
But mikes point about reducing the expenses is valid.
£100 (the buy in for the main event) is pretty much $140 at the moment, so a $200 win in a sat gives $60 expenses.
I believe the overlay in prize is because BSQ have to account for fluctuations in the value of the pound against the dollar. Surely a prize of $160 would be enough to take this into account and would create a few more seats.
For other nationals (£75 buy in) the satellite prize is $150 where £75 gives $105 dollars. I"d imagine a prize of $120 would cover fluctuations in the money market adequately and would also create a few more seats.
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i pretty much agree with Jons point. We dont want to be going down the virgin festival route.
But mikes point about reducing the expenses is valid.
£100 (the buy in for the main event) is pretty much $140 at the moment, so a $200 win in a sat gives $60 expenses.
I believe the overlay in prize is because BSQ have to account for fluctuations in the value of the pound against the dollar. Surely a prize of $160 would be enough to take this into account and would create a few more seats.
For other nationals (£75 buy in) the satellite prize is $150 where £75 gives $105 dollars. I"d imagine a prize of $120 would cover fluctuations in the money market adequately and would also create a few more seats.
Wait, I"m in danger of sounding argumentative.
I think you"re right the extra money probably is just to account for currency fluctuations.
But I don"t think you can assume some people don"t appreciate the little bit extra, even if it"s only enough to pay a train fare for example rather than any substantial part of their expenses.
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But I don"t think you can assume some people don"t appreciate the little bit extra, even if it"s only enough to pay a train fare for example rather than any substantial part of their expenses.
I"m sure they don"t not appreciate the extra money. I"m also sure they would still play the satellites, with no complaints, if the prize was smaller and gave less expenses.
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In my initial thread I wasn"t actually advocating a 50/50 split, that was just playing Devils advocate in response to Jons first post.
But surely a larger number of Sat seats, where actual poker skill is involved, would be better than the crapshoot that is the clickfest.
Also Jon your argument about not playing on line, so not having those seats available to you are just the same as mine, when unable to make the click fest!
On Thursday, I will be at a big corporate bash in Birmingham, and I will be trying to sneak away at 9pm just to try and fast finger, but I don"t really know if that will be possible.
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Also Jon your argument about not playing on line, so not having those seats available to you are just the same as mine, when unable to make the click fest!
On Thursday, I will be at a big corporate bash in Birmingham, and I will be trying to sneak away at 9pm just to try and fast finger, but I don"t really know if that will be possible.
But we"re not just talking about one person and one event. Some people may only be able to qualify by satellite - hence putting them in the same position as those who can only get a seat by the clickfest.
But most of the people who can qualify by satellite can also get in through the clickfest - whereas none of the players who don"t play online can get a seat through the satellite.
Also if you put more seats into the satellites you benefit online players
If you put more seats into the clickfest you benefit live players.
As we are trying to get seats into a live event - if you have to choose one, doesn"t it make sense that you tilt it towards the live players?
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i pretty much agree with Jons point. We dont want to be going down the virgin festival route.
But mikes point about reducing the expenses is valid.
£100 (the buy in for the main event) is pretty much $140 at the moment, so a $200 win in a sat gives $60 expenses.
I believe the overlay in prize is because BSQ have to account for fluctuations in the value of the pound against the dollar. Surely a prize of $160 would be enough to take this into account and would create a few more seats.
For other nationals (£75 buy in) the satellite prize is $150 where £75 gives $105 dollars. I"d imagine a prize of $120 would cover fluctuations in the money market adequately and would also create a few more seats.
My thoughts exactly. $60 overlay for expenses isnt going to help much - it won"t pay for a a hotel room for example. However for every 2 $60 overlays, they could award an extra player a seat - and after all, the reason we play the satellites is for a seat - not to cover expenses.
Would be nice if those who made final table of a satellite where the prize pool only pays 5 seats like last night could be given first refusal in the ClickFest (of course I would say that!)
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I like that idea Steve ;)
Re live v Online, I think we all love live poker, I know I do, but get limited opportunity to play it, thats why I was really disappointed at the loss of the APAT regionals.( Manchester was nearly always full)
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Obviously live satellites would be great (although still discriminatory against those who don"t live near a venue)
And I"m not really talking about people who "prefer" live to online - I mainly mean the people who just don"t play online at all are penalised the more online satellite seats are given away (although obv. the people who don"t play as well online will still have a problem as well)
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... very interesting thread ...
I will have a go at the clickfest tomorrow ... and wish myself good luck ... but I think more satellites would be good.
Elsewhere the comment is made that "99% of players already have Blue Square accounts." so I think most "live" players would have the chance to qualify. Why would good "live" players be substainally worse online??
Also elsewhere is the comment that it costs £2.88 per entrant in admin via the clickfest ... so sat"s are more efficient in that respect.
I appreciate that the split is not set at c25/175 ... is there a maximum number of runners for the satellites? Could it in theory be 200/0?
My take would be that Satellites should be spread out a little and there to be more of them ... do Blue Square have a view on this ... my view here is that if I log onto Blue Square to play a sat" I am almost certain to play other events or cash.
The rounding up to $200 ... I am neutral(ish) ... currency rate volatility has been very high in the last year ... when are the seats bought - how much risk is there?
Looking forward to comments.
Louis
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if everyone who plays tonight just rebuys 40 times we all win. i know i"ll be keeping my end of the bargain up.
easy
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... that is a very interesting point ... I hadn"t realised tonight"s game was a re-buy ...
Can some keep note of the most re-buy bought?
I think the most I have seen was 17 in a £5 re-buy at the Gutshot in London - though I sure that is nowhere near the actual record there ...
L
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if everyone who plays tonight just rebuys 40 times we all win. i know i"ll be keeping my end of the bargain up.
easy
nice theory, but flawed. We cant ALL rebuy - rebuys can only be made when stack falls below starting stack.... so I take your chips, and you rebuy, and we do this 40 times.... you have now contributed your 40x rebuy..... but I have 100k chips now and can"t do my 40x rebuys...... so you have to bite the bullet and do 80 rebuys :)
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got my seat last night but it was bloody hard work for the best part of 4 1/2 hours. we were having this coversation part way through the game and were getting both sides of the argument.
There was some real good play right from the start of the evening and lasted through to the final hand of the night. As I said last night, 104 runners and 4 hours + is a lot of work for 5 seats with 6th getting 40 bucks. I realy think sats should reward those that reach the final table (unless there is a very low turn out)
anyone that made the FT last night and missed a seat must be gutted. I for one would gladly have the expences part of qualifying go to extra seats for those that make the final table.
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Elsewhere the comment is made that "99% of players already have Blue Square accounts." so I think most "live" players would have the chance to qualify. Why would good "live" players be substainally worse online??
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Faulty logic. 99% of players already have a Blue Square account doesn"t mean that 99% of players will have a chance to satellite in, it just means that they have at some point played at least one game.
It"s related to why some players play better live and others play better online. I can"t really give a reason why this happens - the evidence is clear - it just does. And with regards specifically to Blue Square, there are a number of people who have had issues with Blue Square who won"t play on it after trying it to add to the people who just don"t play online.
104 people entered the last satellite - if that reflected the actual demand for seats there wouldn"t be a problem would there?
The disparity shows that whatever the reason is - most - people aim to get a seat in the clickfest. Giving more seats to the clickfest therefore penalises more people than it benefits.
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Nigel,
I totally agree the expences dont need to be there i understand the currency argument but should only be a small amount. They do it with the GUKPT seats online as well one of the reasons I dont play them anymore(the other being I"m not good enough). Should"nt windge with winning a seat for the worlds first night.
WOOP WOOP.
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if everyone who plays tonight just rebuys 40 times we all win. i know i"ll be keeping my end of the bargain up.
easy
nice theory, but flawed. We cant ALL rebuy - rebuys can only be made when stack falls below starting stack.... so I take your chips, and you rebuy, and we do this 40 times.... you have now contributed your 40x rebuy..... but I have 100k chips now and can"t do my 40x rebuys...... so you have to bite the bullet and do 80 rebuys :)
No, you could take it turns to donk chips to each other, and share the rebuys. It can be done.
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I actually think the $10 f/o satellite would be better if it was a $20. It means more seats are created, and the difference in the buy-in is minimal - even for those like me on limited budgets.
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I think the most I have seen was 17 in a £5 re-buy at the Gutshot in London - though I sure that is nowhere near the actual record there ...
L
sit next to me on a cheap re buy and i will show you !
Done 17 + on more occasions that i can remember !
Done 18(inluding double add on at break) on a 10 re buy last week in local pub, Endin up 2nd to be 30 quid up !
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Would it be too tricky to amend the package prize each time there is a series of sats? So instead of a flat $200 package, it could be set at $150 then a week or two before the sats begin that is reassessed (up or down) to make sure its correct. This way you get maximum seats for the same buy in.
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is this sold out yet im tryin to enter but cant find the link ?
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is this sold out yet im tryin to enter but cant find the link ?
go to the home page - www.apat.com , its there on the left hand side - WCOAP MAIN EVENT
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army left that is
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it goes to the welsh one tho and says its sold out ?????????????
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go to the right of the welsh link. Look for the headline WCOAP MAIN EVENT SEATS (grey background) after 3 lines you will find the link
WCOAP MAIN EVENT SEAT:£100
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it goes to the welsh one tho and says its sold out ?????????????
try refreshing the page with "ctrl F5" and then as posted above
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the biggest amount ive seen is 26 rebuys in a £10 rebuy, he had to come 3rd just to get his money back...which he didnt!
as for the thread i think there are pro"s and cons for each arguement, but i think on the whole there are more people trying to sat in rather than just clickfest. i dont think there is ANY solution that satisfies everyone... just as in most things. sometimes people forget what a fantastic organisation this is and that not everyone can be pleased. Look at the competition, most offer qualification only, based on their own selfish needs(creating traffic)
oh and i really wish the gukpt would do a seat only without expenses, with similar buyins to the usual sats. would make them a lot easier on the old bankroll!
oh and dave u are good enough!
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i think im in but havent recieved a cofirmation email althought they have took the money
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... but i think on the whole there are more people trying to sat in rather than just clickfest....
Somebody at Blue Square or APAT would have the actual figures but I don"t see how this can be true.
Roughly the same people play all the satellites, the satellites get roughly 100ish players.
If that was even half the people wanting a seat then the 200 seater events wouldn"t sell out.
Not only do they sell out, but they sell out very easily with demand far greater than supply.
That suggests that the number of people entering the satellites is quite some way below half the people aiming to get a seat.