Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: manchestercarl on June 02, 2009, 14:40:04 PM
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Recent live 10 handed 2+2 cash game
Stacks range from £125 - £500
Fairly tight game, with nobody getting out of line.
In the big (2nd) blind i pick up 6s 6h
One early raise to £12 (standard raise has been to £8 or £9 so far), receives 3 more callers (including button)- 1st blind folds.
I decide to set mine and also flat (opinions please)
so 5 to the flop (already unusual after a large raise)
flop comes :2c: :3c: jc
first to act- i check- as do the other 4
turn is 8h
again I check- as do the other 4 again! (once again, very unusal that nobody has at least taken a stab at the pot!)
river is 6d
£62 in the pot
1st to act, should i now-
a) lead out (if so how much?)
b) check call (if so is this to any bet? Should I be worried about being reraised by someone still to act- if they do then what?)
c) check fold
d) check raise
also any thoughts on my line so far?
Thanks in advance ;)
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1. set mine here? absolutely.
2. assume that you have the best hand here and lead out - you would curse yourself if you checked, and it checked right round again. If raised, ship it in with confidence that you are ahead, but be ready to reload if someone has JJ, 88, or flush (unlikley given that nobody made any attempt to build a pot)
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what stack did you have at the start of this hand?
big stack then i"d maybe set mine but with 4 others in the pot and no position i"d probably fold pre flop tbh (but i also play mostly tourneys and think a fold here is the right move to play in a tourney)
with no-one leading out previous i"m wary of the check raise, i"d check and see how the betting goes before i decide here as there is so many in the pot and anyone with JJ or 88 is thinking they"re good, same as anyone (or 2) with a flopped flush - probably be able to discount anyone holding 4,5 with the pre flop betting but i have seen crazier stuff
if only one person makes a stab at the pot after your check then i"d be inclined to call - if 2 or more call or raise its an easy fold for me
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My line probs would be to call and hope to hit a six, and take it from there, but there is a line that says re raise to say £40, and try and clear out the limpers and maybe take it down there and then.
After the flop you are way oop (another reason to raise pre) and a check from there is fair enough, after the turn and no one has bet the flop I might be tempted to bet, but would probs check!
You"ve hit your set on the river, and can only really be afraid of a flopped flush, I would lead out here in most cases I think with a pot sized bet, you might then get re raised, and obviously your reads here are important, but be prepared to get it all in.
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calling is the only play imo preflop, set mining is fine as long as stacks are deep enough (which they probably are) and you don"t go bust on a "friendly" non-6 flop. Can"t understand why folding would be good and you can only "squeeze" if you are willing to play for stacks.
River depends on the players in the hand but i think my default line would be to bet pretty big here to try and get value, don"t fall into the trap of "value betting" like £20, where a more chunky £50+ bet may get called. Your hand is pretty disguised and most players are not slowplaying a flopped flush for 2 full streets imo.
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call pre/bet fold river
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check/raise would be horrible
I would lead/call or lead/fold dependant on reads
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I would likely lead out for about £45 (how big is your stack?)
I might also check it - and call a bet - depending on reads etc.
I don"t like the prospect of being raised.
It would not surprise me if a villain has 45s.
L
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Thanks for your thoughts guys....
I decided I was gonna check call any bet (unless I picked up any tells in the meantime)...
It checked round to the button who bet out £70 (into a £62 pot)
I called quickley (and hoped not to be re-raised by the 3 guys now still to act).
Button had 4d 5d and I lost the hand
Obviously didnt want to put this at start as didnt want answers to be result-led.
Trying not to be result orientated, and still think my line wasnt too bad, although obviously need to think a little more about position.
A bet on the flop or turn would have probably got the button out of the hand, as would a raise pre-flop, although in the long run I think any of these plays may have been a bit spewey given the texture of the board. Also still a little unsure if folding to the £70 button bet is weak?
I think Villan (a player I respect a lot, and also a player more than capable of making the same bet with air) played it well, as being on the button and last to act made his bet look like he was atempting to steal after nobody else showed any strength in the pot.
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It would be an amazing lay down ... no escape.
L
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Yea wish I hada cn this earlier. Totally dependant on ur stack size on the river. If I had 120+ then I am probably betting £32 and then maybe folding to a chove depending on the player. Any less Im def prepared to get it in and hope Its the best hand in which case I probably lead £50 and am committed.
As played I think he gave u a good chance to get away as there is very little he value-over-bets river w/ that u beat, esp when he is firing w/ 3 to act behind him. I dnt think he bets £70 w/ jacks up. That said...very player dependant also and u have previous info on him which may affect.
On another note - clearly hate how he played the hand!! ???
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Marty- thanks for the comment- but how do you hate the way he played the hand.
He bet when he had a made hand, and is only beat by the flopped flush. It is surely right to think it unlikley that someone would check a flopped flush on all 3 streets- he is last to act in the hand and has a fairly well disguised hand.
I like the overbet, as anybody with a set (or maybe even 2 pair, if they put him on a bluff) is just as likely to call an overbet as they are a small "value" bet.
overbet for "real" value is a tactic that appears to work very well in live cash!
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i love his play - just dont really like the fact that he got there for free, but the bet on the end is excellent. as you say, anyone willing to pay a small value bet in this spot is just as likely to pay an overbet.
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depends on how tight the table is i would try to see the flop as best as i could with 45s but if you bet the turn(no one had interest on the flop) and you may have took it down there and then. he would not have called with the possibility of a flush and you would have had a nice stack, with your hand on the river i would have called his bet and kicked my rear all the way home, so u did not make a terrible call, you had a set.
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I think the overbet allows ppl to get away from some hands that will otherwise pay him off. I think if he bets £45 e can get paid by a much wider range. Theoretically the way he played the hand, the only hands that should be calling him should have him beat a large % of the time. I think he is losing value in the long-run w/ the overbet, although this time it works as he manages to hit his gin-card.
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call pre/bet fold river
leading the river saves you $$$$