Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: treydj on June 15, 2009, 19:51:55 PM

Title: 99
Post by: treydj on June 15, 2009, 19:51:55 PM
hi all,

just a general question.........

all players still have starting stacks - no reads - just an average say $5 - $20 game


9 / 10 seater

SNG level 1 or 2 - 99 UTG - raise fold or limp.

i can make a case for all three , but whats the general idea?

i guess the same can be said for 88 an TT?

Cheers

Jas
Title: Re: 99
Post by: Swinebag on June 15, 2009, 20:05:55 PM
I agree that you can make a case for all 3

I generally prefer the limp in a STT and will fold to a raise in levels 1 and 2.

same for 88. I should probably do the same for TT, but I think I tend to overplay this hand early in STTs.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: George2Loose on June 15, 2009, 20:30:50 PM
I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat
Title: Re: 99
Post by: duke3016 on June 15, 2009, 20:33:32 PM

I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat


What he said cos he is still my hero  ;D
Title: Re: 99
Post by: AMRN on June 15, 2009, 20:39:06 PM

I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat


trouble is you"re almost always gonna get a call cos it"s cheap, then you have to play the flop oop with a marginal hand.

i would limp and set mine, or fold pre to any raise unless multiple callers to give some implied value
Title: Re: 99
Post by: Swinebag on June 15, 2009, 20:46:34 PM


I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat


trouble is you"re almost always gonna get a call cos it"s cheap, then you have to play the flop oop with a marginal hand.

i would limp and set mine, or fold pre to any raise unless multiple callers to give some implied value


you got there before me steve. At these levels ($5 - $20) you are generally bleeding chips, raising with these hands. If you only raise AA - JJ and AK, you may think you are exploitable (as you would be in a MTT) but you rarely are
Title: Re: 99
Post by: treydj on June 15, 2009, 20:50:43 PM
weird hand eh!!

all replies are different lol!!

i kinda limp and call a standard raise - if i miss my set or i dont flop favourably i"m out.

every time i raise i get called in at least one position thus playing an inflated pot oop with a real difficult hand.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: mal666 on June 15, 2009, 22:31:27 PM
limp call oop is the worst thing we can do here. Raise or fold with a lean towards folding. Don fold every time utg L1
Title: Re: 99
Post by: deanp27 on June 16, 2009, 10:16:51 AM
i never open limp with anything so i open with a raise
Title: Re: 99
Post by: AMRN on June 16, 2009, 11:18:34 AM

i never open limp with anything so i open with a raise


In this scenario as outlined in the OP, don"t you think this is a little spewy? You are always going to get at least one call, and probably more than one... and then will be playing a flop out of position, with a high likelihood of overcards on the board.   Obviously if you are re-raised preflop you can fold and get away cheap.... but if called, you either c-bet or c/r post flop, and in both events you"re going to have commit more chips than a simple limp/call preflop. In level 1 of a cheap STT, surely 99 is a hand to set-mine with, but not one to play the flop with oop.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: deanp27 on June 16, 2009, 11:51:33 AM
no i don"t think it is spewy at all. people who limp-call small pocket pairs might as well turn their hand face up half the time.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: Marty719 on June 16, 2009, 12:33:17 PM

no i don"t think it is spewy at all. people who limp-call small pocket pairs might as well turn their hand face up half the time.


This only is the case if you play str8 forward.  If u mix up ur game and limp a wide range a small % of the time then set mining here is fine.  I think u can fold if its a very aggressive table - limp if it is a passive limpy table - and raise if ppl r playing tight.  Easy game :)  As long as u also limp big hands utg a certain % or maybe even s.c."s some of the time then limp = +EV
Title: Re: 99
Post by: George2Loose on June 16, 2009, 17:35:34 PM
Dunno about the levels but in most sngs I play you usually will get it heads up in this spot or take the blinds which isn"t bad with a hand like 99
Title: Re: 99
Post by: AMRN on June 16, 2009, 19:53:23 PM

Dunno about the levels but in most sngs I play you usually will get it heads up in this spot or take the blinds which isn"t bad with a hand like 99


I doubt you play many $5-$20 Sngs..... and that was the subject of the OP.     At least 2 callers most of the time, followed by more spewage on the flop when we c-bet/fold.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: George2Loose on June 16, 2009, 21:15:32 PM
I"d open but in a sit and go I wouldn"t c bet as often
Title: Re: 99
Post by: mal666 on June 17, 2009, 00:51:07 AM


Dunno about the levels but in most sngs I play you usually will get it heads up in this spot or take the blinds which isn"t bad with a hand like 99


I doubt you play many $5-$20 Sngs..... and that was the subject of the OP.     At least 2 callers most of the time, followed by more spewage on the flop when we c-bet/fold.

I really dont agree with this, ime L1
Title: Re: 99
Post by: undisputed on June 19, 2009, 11:10:44 AM
Why fold to a raise........ thats when u wanna set..pref to someones o/pair.... that is HOW you get paid and will provide all the implies odds you need !!! if you miss, u lose say 5% of your stack whici is pretty meaningless at this early stage....
really depends on the buyin/site too......
i had an allin preflop in a $12 game last night called by 4/9 players on table... I had QQ,  initial raiser had kq, 2 callers pre had a2 suited and j 9 suited....... and no i didnt win :) makes you think tho.....





I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat


trouble is you"re almost always gonna get a call cos it"s cheap, then you have to play the flop oop with a marginal hand.

i would limp and set mine, or fold pre to any raise unless multiple callers to give some implied value
Title: Re: 99
Post by: Cyntaf on June 19, 2009, 14:47:00 PM
Damn fine question with some very interesting and varied answers. Which is good or we"d all be transparent.
Think I"m limping in here at this stage etc.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: George2Loose on June 19, 2009, 17:16:48 PM

Why fold to a raise........ thats when u wanna set..pref to someones o/pair.... that is HOW you get paid and will provide all the implies odds you need !!! if you miss, u lose say 5% of your stack whici is pretty meaningless at this early stage....
really depends on the buyin/site too......
i had an allin preflop in a $12 game last night called by 4/9 players on table... I had QQ,  initial raiser had kq, 2 callers pre had a2 suited and j 9 suited....... and no i didnt win :) makes you think tho.....





I would still raise as level 1 its still relativley cheap- if you get reraised you can fold comfortable in the knowledge your beat


trouble is you"re almost always gonna get a call cos it"s cheap, then you have to play the flop oop with a marginal hand.

i would limp and set mine, or fold pre to any raise unless multiple callers to give some implied value



In a sit and go I"d fold 99 1st level to a re raise
Title: Re: 99
Post by: mal666 on June 19, 2009, 20:09:41 PM
In a sit and go I"d fold 99 1st level to a re raise
Totally correct, there is no price to set mine here! Raising 99 L1 is spewy alone but i dont mind it from s1 or s2 as most peeps will give respect and pass. So making it 90 L1 S1/S2
Title: Re: 99
Post by: AMRN on June 19, 2009, 20:16:22 PM

In a sit and go I"d fold 99 1st level to a re raise
Totally correct, there is no price to set mine here! Raising 99 L1 is spewy alone but i dont mind it from s1 or s2 as most peeps will give respect and pass. So making it 90 L1 S1/S2


early doors is where you get the best price to set mine... the implied odds if you hit your set are huge.
Title: Re: 99
Post by: George2Loose on June 19, 2009, 20:50:47 PM
would be interesting posting this on blonde seeing what longy/tank say. Pretty sure they fold to a rr with 99 l1 or 2
Title: Re: 99
Post by: mal666 on June 20, 2009, 09:16:15 AM

would be interesting posting this on blonde seeing what longy/tank say. Pretty sure they fold to a rr with 99 l1 or 2

I never finished my post but this is exactly what i was saying. Basically your going to end up with 270$ in pre @ L1 out of a 1500$ stack, this is a huge mistake.
(The multi tabling nit regs would just pass this pre)
Title: Re: 99
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on June 20, 2009, 11:12:13 AM
This very hand last night in a $5 SNG, UG I raised to 4 x BB, my thinking fairly similar to Steves is that I am hoping to get rid of the junk hands, and am aware that I will get called by good aces and other pairs, and hopefully not re raised! As it happened I had two callers and flopped a set on a low board, I checked the flop as did the 2 callers turn was a K and am now hoping it has hit someone so check again, bet and two callers happy days, river Ace, I bet the pot, one fold and the button calls and flips AK.
So big pot early on and sets me up for the tournament (finished 2nd) . I know the button played it horribly, well he did IMO, but when you hit your set....
Title: Re: 99
Post by: AMRN on June 20, 2009, 15:39:48 PM


would be interesting posting this on blonde seeing what longy/tank say. Pretty sure they fold to a rr with 99 l1 or 2

I never finished my post but this is exactly what i was saying. Basically your going to end up with 270$ in pre @ L1 out of a 1500$ stack, this is a huge mistake.
(The multi tabling nit regs would just pass this pre)


which is exactly the reason why i said I would limp rather than open-raise with this hand in this spot in this tourney in this level!!!  QED limp is best in this spot - if someone makes standard raise after you, it costs only 60 or 80 to see the flop, and the implied odds are good.