Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: treydj on July 06, 2009, 19:51:08 PM
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Evening all.
Just after a general thought on this....
lets say you have around 10 - 15 BB - basically the short stack on a 9 handed table.
Lets give you 6000 chips on a 480/240 75 ante set up.
UTG ( who has you well covered) raises to 1500 and you look down and find AQs.
Now you have little or no fold equity.
Do you move all in?
or stop and go any flop?
or fold??????????? :o
can you let me know your thoughts and reasons for your choices?
Cheers
Jas
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I would want the double up, so would shove pre flop because this would be the best way of getting all the chips in the middle, and AQ is a great hand to go to war with considering our stack size.
The stop and go may get a fold from the raiser after the flop (not from me though) and whilst I would still be in the tourney, I would feel that I have missed out, especially if I hit on the flop.
I"m sure there is some proper maths that goes with this problem that actually works out the "correct play" but dont know what it is.
In short, I think both moves are good, but I"d save the stop and go for a weaker hand and a bit of fold equity against an opponent who is more likely to fold when he has AK, AQ and misses or has 88-JJ and overcards come up.
(PS - If I stop and go in edinburgh, I will definitely have a weak hand so call....please :D ;))
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Shove
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For me, it"s a shove and hope too.
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Shove
has this turned into a blonde strategy thread??
can you let me know your thoughts and reasons for your choices?
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Shove
has this turned into a blonde strategy thread??
can you let me know your thoughts and reasons for your choices?
coz im a shove monkey innit
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Sorry ...
For me, it"s a shove and hope too.
I would want the double up, so would shove pre flop because this would be the best way of getting all the chips in the middle, and AQ is a great hand to go to war with considering our stack size.
;D
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My initial opinion would be shove and take your chances.
However, as I mentioned to Jas on the phone this evening, this is a situation that I find myself in regularly in tournaments. And when I look back at my exit hand, I always ask myself, could I have got away from the hand, was I happy knowing I was racing at best, or was there another way I could play it to give myself options in the hand.
A flat call here, would give you options. I"ve been told lately, that I can be in too much of a rush to get the chips in and race in tournaments, so a stop n go approach might be a good approach to mix up your game.
I think for the majority of players in this situation it is a simple shove or fold decision, but I"m not convinced either is the optimal play here.
Obviously, there are other factors to take into account.
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Its a pretty vague op to say the least, only deserves vague answers. But default here is shove imo.
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yeh shove it- double up ftw
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why would you fold here? unless you are waiting for aces?
shove all the way here, the problem with a stop n go here is you may be letting your opponent catch up, whereas u could win the pot pre-flop
not only that, if you were losing pre-flop, there are a very limited number of hands that would fold to your stop and go, therefore might as well shove pre
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why would you fold here? unless you are waiting for aces?
shove all the way here, the problem with a stop n go here is you may be letting your opponent catch up, whereas u could win the pot pre-flop
not only that, if you were losing pre-flop, there are a very limited number of hands that would fold to your stop and go, therefore might as well shove pre
I"d just fold and wait 4 a big hand :D :D :D :D :D :D
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default in a vacuum is shove
but if UTG is positionally aware and capable (depends also on his stack size) it may lead to a different conclusion.
in poker you need reads tho
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Folding isnt awful depending on what type of player utg is. If he is a tight player then we insta fold wen he brings it in utg. We have to assign a range and act upon it. Really we have to ask what range our oponent is raising w/ from tht position and how much of it we are beating/racing with. It is def a fold/shove hand. Just player dependant as with a lot of the game!
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rarely folding, but don"t think it"s always an auto-shove.... surely there is sometimes merit in using "stop and go" here.
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default in a vacuum is shove
but if UTG is positionally aware and capable (depends also on his stack size) it may lead to a different conclusion.
in poker you need reads tho
good post
Folding isnt awful depending on what type of player utg is. If he is a tight player then we insta fold wen he brings it in utg. We have to assign a range and act upon it. Really we have to ask what range our oponent is raising w/ from tht position and how much of it we are beating/racing with. It is def a fold/shove hand. Just player dependant as with a lot of the game!
good post
rarely folding, but don"t think it"s always an auto-shove.... surely there is sometimes merit in using "stop and go" here.
what I said, but summarised beautifully. ;D
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shove, utg calls with ak, bugger, need a three-outer to survive, i would stop and go in that situation as you might be able to push the player off after the flop(depends solely on your read though) as you will have position on utg player, if there is a low flop and he shoves then you can get away from aq, but if he checks a low flop then you can shove(based on a read though) and win a pot with relatively less gambling than shoving pre and just getting lucky.
i do not mind the shove though as aq is a good hand and we do need to get chips at this point of time. it might be time to see how your luck is running.
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shove, utg calls with ak, bugger, need a three-outer to survive, i would stop and go in that situation as you might be able to push the player off after the flop(depends solely on your read though) as you will have position on utg player, if there is a low flop and he shoves then you can get away from aq, but if he checks a low flop then you can shove(based on a read though) and win a pot with relatively less gambling than shoving pre and just getting lucky.
i do not mind the shove though as aq is a good hand and we do need to get chips at this point of time. it might be time to see how your luck is running.
What if the button then shoves, utg folds?
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shove, utg calls with ak, bugger, need a three-outer to survive, i would stop and go in that situation as you might be able to push the player off after the flop(depends solely on your read though) as you will have position on utg player, if there is a low flop and he shoves then you can get away from aq, but if he checks a low flop then you can shove(based on a read though) and win a pot with relatively less gambling than shoving pre and just getting lucky.
i do not mind the shove though as aq is a good hand and we do need to get chips at this point of time. it might be time to see how your luck is running.
What if the button then shoves, utg folds?
for some reason I thought we were sat in the Big Blind in this hand. If I were in the blinds, I might Stop and Go..... anywhere not in the blinds and I might shove. I would hardly ever stop and go with this hand from late position though - you give the original raiser the chance to shove first if he misses the flop.
All situation dependant though.
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hi guys
thanks again for the input - lots of differing replies again!!
I am not results orientated, but in the hand I shoved, the opp called with ad1 ts - happy days - as I turned a queen, he hit runner runner spades for a flush. pfffff
now, having had time to absorb the hand, if i had called and shoved the flop I am pretty certain he would have folded.
I am not saying that its an auto play to do this, but in essence I gave him 5 cards to beat me instead of a potential 3?
I just think the correct play with no fold equity is to stop and go - at least giving you 1 more chance to win the pot.
If I had had enough chips to make the guy fold then I think the all in move is the better option!
hell what do i know
lol
cheers all.
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problem is that generally you may need to see 5 cards to win and i just prefer to shove aq for value in this spot than stop n go