Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: antthecat on July 08, 2009, 00:46:18 AM
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i think that im a good live player but my online game is so terrible, its unreal. is there any pointers or books to help as the internet is the best place to earn some good cash,
here is my known problems
1. when im playing live i dont lose concentration, online i cant sit for hours as it seems so boring
2. i dont know why but it seems that im always being bluffed so i always call light no matter how tight or loose the player is
i know that i seem to answer my questions but all help is really appreciated
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i think that im a good live player but my online game is so terrible, its unreal. is there any pointers or books to help as the internet is the best place to earn some good cash,
here is my known problems
1. when im playing live i dont lose concentration, online i cant sit for hours as it seems so boring
2. i dont know why but it seems that im always being bluffed so i always call light no matter how tight or loose the player is
i know that i seem to answer my questions but all help is really appreciated
One way to cure both of the above problems is to multi-table. Even if u play 4 tables, u will not be as bored, and u will only be playing premium hands. As a rule, its harder to get bluffed wen u have a premium hand :) As the old saying goes, practise makes perfect!
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im opposite
i seem to prefer playing online amd have better results
for some reason i cant take my online play and use it live
eg
online sng/mtt
folded to me with QJs or Q 10s in the button or sb - 90% ill raise hopefully to steal the blinds, if im re rasied i"ll evaluate
live
similar scenario - i"ll either weakly limp in the sb or just weakly limp or fold on the button
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im opposite
i seem to prefer playing online amd have better results
for some reason i cant take my online play and use it live
eg
online sng/mtt
folded to me with QJs or Q 10s in the button or sb - 90% ill raise hopefully to steal the blinds, if im re rasied i"ll evaluate
live
similar scenario - i"ll either weakly limp in the sb or just weakly limp or fold on the button
u shud clearly never fold or limp this on the button but depending on the bb I dnt mind the limp from the sb. If the bb is a defender that plays well pre&post flop, then I dnt want to play a swollen pot out of position with a marginal hand. If the bb is weak/passive, then fire at will on every occasion!
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ive started playing.... since may, mtt 4 dollar on stars doest take to long with a decent return..... up $600 in 2 months can play 2/3 tables at a time so not as boring
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online i cant sit for hours as it seems so boring
I hear ya. I find it tough to consistently get deep in online MTTs as boredom is a factor. Suggest you try turbo STTs - and multi table them at least 4 at a time (stagger the starts though so yo udont end up heads up on too many tables at once). when knocked out of one, simply fire up another and keep them rolling 4 open at a time. You get to play early, mid, and end game all at the same time, and no chance to get bored.
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Winning usually relieves the boredom.
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i know im better live as been playing live for a lot longer than ive had the internet(been on and off online for a year, been playing poker since i was 14).
to me it does not seem right as im not playing with chips, squeezing my cards when a player is all in and pulling chips in when i win a pot.
i have tried multitabling and it does make the game better and boredum does not set in.
i suppose that just tighten my game and try different things until something works
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have some chips to riffle next to your computer
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have some chips to riffle next to your computer
Yeah recreate the live experience in your own front room. So we got the chips you can have some cards obv now all we need is a couple of random drunks to annoy you all night an old dear that never stops talking about her grankids, some fat guy that stinks of B.O and 3 other peeps that will just say i folded 94 woulda had a house there, every time a flop is dealt.
Have i missed anything?
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Hot polish women dealing.....bit harder to get in ur livin" room tho!
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2. i dont know why but it seems that im always being bluffed so i always call light no matter how tight or loose the player is
then there was longshanks reply wondering how to react with QT otb if re-raised pre,i have just been browsing through the old posts and its not surprising to find lots of other similar situations and replys on how to deal with say ""aggressive 3 betting"" that are a little foggy,maybe i should just start a fresh post on how others in APAT deal with 3betting in or out of position but i wont :) so i"ll write some thoughts on it here and take from it what you will,oh and if anyone wants to add any other tactics or just wants to give some constructive critique then go ahead,feel free to do so..
The best way i guess is to set up a situation -
Lets say we are in the cut off seat and we raise AQo and the button 3bets us what do we do? we have no read and no idea of his range.Our general strategy at the table will have to be adjusted especially if the players behind us are going to be doing this a lot.What i will try to do will be to try and balance my range for calling the 3bets in such a way so that i can play my suited connectors,pairs and AK AQs for example in the same way,but leave my opponents guessing.
I think i"ll have to give some examples :) as putting into words what i am trying to do still seems ""foggy""..
Ok what do i mean when i say i try to balance my range? i am trying to play in such a way that when i float or re-raise flops,turns etc i am trying to balance it with how i"d play different types of hands. meh still "foggy" right . time for examples lol :)
example 1.
I have AQo in a six max 1/2 game in the cut off , i raise to 7 the btt re-raises to 21,i have no idea of his range here or is cbet frequency,does he double barrel or pot control top pair etc so it is a std fold for me.
Next orbit i raise to 7 KQo the btt re-raises again to 21 , lol frustrating but i still have no idea if he has just been lucky and been dealt some big hands or he is just plain aggressive, so again std fold..but now i"m going to tighten up there is unfortunately no magic way to play a wide range from any position if there are aggressive 3bettors behind u.
Next orbit ""oh for the luv of god"" i"m dealt AA , so i raise to 7 again the btt re-raises to 21,right 4 betting here is not an option for me,why? because when i call 3bets in future hands against my opponents on this table i want to balance in some of my weaker hands like 9Ts KJs etc so i choose to call..
the flop is js 6d 5d
i choose to check and btt fires out nearly 3/4 pot,right in future hands if i choose to call a 3bet with say 89dd then i like to balance my play here with AA as to how i"d like to play my draws in future...so i can check raise or check shove here , as it is only a 100bb deep cash game in this example i"ll choose the check shove option and the aggressive btt calls.
the board - js 6d 5d 8c :as:
showdown - and villain has TJo
so at last some info on villain,he 3bets light,he wont pot control top pair/medium kicker and he may [small may :)] have
some 3rd level thinking as he called our shove,he may of put us on a draw or may of figured that we got frustrated with the earlier 3bets and were now making a move.One thing to add is i would not only do this with AA but AKdd as well,because now that if my opponents had seen me do this with a draw then in future when i have a big over pair on a 2 suited flop there is a greater chance that i"ll get my big pairs paid off.
So how does this tie in with future hands, ok another example..... ;) i know these may seem a bit extreme,but it is the only way i can think of getting my idea of us finding a balance in the hands that we play and how it affects future hands.
example 2 same table,same opponents.
in the cut off again and i"m dealt QJss i raise and btt 3bets again and i call.....
the flop is ks 9d 5d
ok the flop has missed me but i do have some equity here and i do know that the buttons 3bet range is quite wide so i"m not necessarily gonna assume that he has top pair here,but i do know that he will be wondering wtf have i called him with this time ;D so same pattern as before i check and i"m going to be looking to make a move on him here :) he cbets,i shove,he folds... now it is risky as there is a small chance that he could have AK but now that i know his 3bet range is wide he could only have A9 here for example or he may be stronger and have TT KQ but now because of what happened earlier i have tons more fold equity and if i"m called,heyho i still have outs ;D still overall a profitable move.
example 3 same table,same opponent... but now i have laid some groundwork and the dynamics will most of the time now start to change..My aggressive friend on the button may well now be adjusting and 3betting not quite as light as he was.
So 3or4 orbits later i have AQo and make my std raise to 7,btt re-raises to 21 and i call..not necessarily because i think for definite that i have the best hand but because of what has happened before [the check shoving] i feel more comfortable in defending my AQ and to see a flop,i have no problem in check folding if i miss the flop here...but as i said the dynamics have changed as well as because of the previous check shoves i do not think my opponent will cbet as readily as before...
the flop brings - tc 4h 5h
and this time he does not cbet and i get to see a free turn card - qc
ok so what does his check mean,more than likely now after the AA he may still be thinking we are only calling strong hands to his 3bets but also he could be pot controlling now with AT JT 99 88 he may have KQ AK that have missed..so i bet just over 1/2 pot on the turn with my top pair,,but do u see what i am driving at? now because of the previous hands and how i played them,it has enabled me to see free turn cards when i miss..and luckily this i hit on the turn and he just calls my bet [so monsters seem less likely now] it seems he is trying to get to showdown cheap and the river is a blank and i value bet and he calls with 99.........So this time he chose to pot control and not bet fold flop or bet flop call raise and because i am trying to knit together how i play/balance my range this is starting to buy free turns for my future hands that i play,i hope my examples so far show that.. :) You can apply this in mtts as well as cash imo but being deep helps......even now with our balanced range i would not rule out calling 3bets with medium pairs like 88 99 because even though the implied odds are a bit skewed i can expect to against certain opponents to get to showdown a lot more fairly cheaply,also my ability to choose when to bluff or fold if there are over cards improves etc cause i"m not always going to have 88 99 when the flop is KT3.. i hope some of u reading this get some ideas on how u can adjust and balance your hand ranges in such way that it helps u be a little less predictable...
all these examples have been when i am out of position let alone what u can do when u have position on a aggressive 3bettor from the blinds when we raise on the button...again if u balance your range in these spots it will present u with loads of different opportunitys and various floats/plays....meh i"ll save my thoughts on those for another day..
hope u got what i"m driving at....gg
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2. i dont know why but it seems that im always being bluffed so i always call light no matter how tight or loose the player is
then there was longshanks reply wondering how to react with QT otb if re-raised pre,i have just been browsing through the old posts and its not surprising to find lots of other similar situations and replys on how to deal with say ""aggressive 3 betting"" that are a little foggy,maybe i should just start a fresh post on
Definately nothing little about foggy
No personal attacks please!
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Good stuff
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great post Noble - useful stuff
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you old wise owl :)
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i think that im a good live player but my online game is so terrible, its unreal. is there any pointers or books to help as the internet is the best place to earn some good cash,
yes it is but if you struggle to adjust your game to online and cant be successful at it by your own standards then solely sticking to live play may help you manage you BR better and additionally allow you to improve your live game furthermore. Why carry on making the same mistakes if your not going to adjust...?
1. when im playing live i dont lose concentration, online i cant sit for hours as it seems so boring
If your not concentrating online as ur bored then this is -ve and will not help u "earn some good cash" to your full potential. This seems like a key issue for you given the info you"ve provided. Concentrating is not difficult if u rly want to do it, its all about frame of mind, i suggest reading this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Poker-Tommy-Angelo/dp/1419680897/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224710526&sr=8-1
2. i dont know why but it seems that im always being bluffed so i always call light no matter how tight or loose the player is
this question is prolly void until u resolve your concentration/boredom issue. tommy will help here imo.
On a personal note i would add that game selection is key, what have ur last 20 buyins been? have they all been at the same level and the same field size and the same type of game? or is it v erractic to cure boredom.... discipline in game selection is essential for online poker imo, it should allow u to cure some of that boredome playing 52s utg every now and then!
hope i"ve not come across rude but i would much rather get my points across in this manner to help you, either focus your concentration to your live game OR help your erradicate whatever it is that drove u to start this thread. either way it shold save u some bucks if you get serious about it! (even tho i prolly come across as a douche)
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great way to relieve the online boredom - multi-table (3 or 4) six max NLH games. At the .10/.20 level on most sites they have a really high player to flop ratio, meaning there will be action in almost every hand. You can choose to mix it up and live on the edge, or play tight and know that you are going to be 3/1 ahead when you do finally get your chips in.... but one thing you can always guarantee is that there is too much going on in front of you to allow any boredom to creep in. Make sure you use a Tracker with a HUD though!
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Make sure you use a Tracker with a HUD though!
Some sort of AHK script as well always helps if your multitabling.
Wld recommend modding the skin your playing on too if your going to get involved with more then 2 tables to ensure you always know how many players are in a pot!