Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: MintTrav on July 29, 2009, 05:00:21 AM
-
Local tournament tonight. 25 runners @ £20. 3 prizes - £250, £150, £100.
6 left, me and two others on about 35k and 3 others on 15-25k. I"m a slight chip leader over the other two big stacks.
Before the final table started another player told me about one guy who was very drunk and had been going all-in repeatedly. He had been waiting for a big hand to take him on but it never came. On the final table he continued doing this, shoving pre-flop about every second hand and then showing 3 6, Q 2, 8 5, etc, so everyone was waiting for a big hand to catch him. I had folded my previous BB to his shove and he shoved again on my next BB, everyone else folded and I found I had AQo.
I"m definitely miles ahead of his range. This could be the time he actually does have a monster but that is pretty unlikely. He is one of the other big stacks so if I take him out I"m a huge favourite to win the whole thing, but if I lose I"m as good as out.
I"m pretty confident playing against this table - the 3rd big stack is another maniac, though not so much since we joined tables with maniac 1. The two shortest are about 70 years old and are looking for reasons to fold everything that isn"t two pictures that look like each other. I"ve been cutoff to their SB & BB all night and have been helping myself to their blinds. Don"t know much about the last guy as he hasn"t done much, but seems pretty average/tight. I wouldn"t normally consider calling an all-in from a big stack with AQ, but I am probably a big favourite to win the hand. On the other hand, I could fold and delay the confrontation until we play down to the seemingly inevitable three-way face-off between maniac 1, maniac 2 and myself.
I can"t decide whether the right option was to risk my tournament on a call (that I would probably win) or to fold and wait for a better opportunity (or, at least, a less risky one). At the time, I kept thinking that if I won"t call him with AQ, what hand am I waiting for?
-
I wouldn"t normally consider calling an all-in from a big stack with AQ, but I am probably a big favourite to win the hand.
No you"re not a big favourite to win the hand unless he has a dominated A or Q.... it"s more likely that he has undercards, and you are 60% at best - a favourite, but certainly not a BIG favourite.
I hate these spots, cos you just know you"re ahead, but it"s also sod"s law that you make the correct call and you"re out.
You say you are raping the SB and BB with ease - I would just fold here, and continue to pick up their blinds. If you have the edge over the table, no need to throw it in with AQo against a big stack in what will be a 60/40 at best.
-
I don"t like to call with strong aces if the action is on me and icant put thevillan on a hand range
I"d fold and look for a better spot AQ is only ace high and any random card your opponent holds has 5 chances to hit (so do you mind)
different storyif I had raised with AQ and he shoved over thetop. Then I could probably get it in. But in your scenarioim out of the hand
-
oh my this is snap crackle and pop based on what you said.
not sure how many BBs, blind structure etc but i bet it is fairly crapshooty.
-
If he is shoving evry other hand then this is an absolute snap call!!!! We are trying to win, and this hand puts us in very good shape to do this. Villains hand range is very polarised and we are ahead of lots, crushing some and losing to very few! I think I beat him into the pot!!
-
what would you do online?
-
If he is shoving evry other hand then this is an absolute snap call!!!! We are trying to win, and this hand puts us in very good shape to do this. Villains hand range is very polarised and we are ahead of lots, crushing some and losing to very few! I think I beat him into the pot!!
......but against most of his range, we will lose around 40% of the time - therefore we"re putting our tourney on not much more than a coin flip, yet we feel we have a good edge over the table. Surely this is one of those occasions when it is right to find a better spot and get our chips in first.
-
If hes shoving ever other hand then you aren"t going to be stealing many blinds anyway. Snap call please
-
Blind sizes in relation to Stacks would be helpful but if you are still healthy.
I"d fold for the following reasons:
"I"m pretty confident playing against this table"
and
"The two shortest are about 70 years old and are looking for reasons to fold everything that isn"t two pictures that look like each other. I"ve been cutoff to their SB & BB all night and have been helping myself to their blinds."
With AQ you are likely not that far in front of ATC and it is not necessary to take big risks at this point.
If this was a tougher table I might advocate a call with AQ in this spot.
Reminds me of playing cash against a drunk in DTD doing exactly this. I elected to call with AJ against yet another all in shove with 83o and he caught a 3 on the turn for a juicy pot. I went home after this and he ordered another drink. ::)
-
What are the blinds please?
-
If hes shoving ever other hand then you aren"t going to be stealing many blinds anyway. Snap call please
this....
from what you have said there is only 1 other person on the table that will call this maniac without aces, if everybody keeps folding to him he could be out of sight before you catch him. It all depends on what you want to do, get in the money or win the tournament, if you want to win the tournament then its a snap call, since u would be a favourite to win (its closer to 2-1 with any random cards steve) then not only would you have an edge over the table, you will have a chip edge. If you want to just make the money then fold, but never ever show you made a big lay down, this will just give him more encouragement.
after saying all this though i bet you called and lost!
-
I"m assuming the blinds are huge now so I"d call. At this stage of a tourney, you"d do well to get a better spot. Its not bubble time and you will need to increase your stack at some point to win this. I think you are most likely to be 60-65% favourite to win the hand and that is huge at this stage of the tourney.
If you are waiting for AA-QQ (or whatever it is that you want to call with) you could still lose the hand.
-
I"m with Greenstein on this one "Maths is for idiots" :D
Pretty sure if it was online you snap call. If we are anywhere around the 10-20 BBs deep this edge that i keep hearing of is being able to identify +ev situations and not what i think some people believe it to be.
What exactly are we waiting to call with if this guy has been shoving ATC every other hand????
-
I"m with Greenstein on this one "Maths is for idiots" :D
Pretty sure if it was online you snap call. If we are anywhere around the 10-20 BBs deep this edge that i keep hearing of is being able to identify +ev situations and not what i think some people believe it to be.
What exactly are we waiting to call with if this guy has been shoving ATC every other hand????
I just want to be the one shoving rather than calling. I hate calling for my tourney with a marginal hand when still sitting deep enough to be able to wait for that "better spot".
-
listened to all the arguments re folding and i am still snapping this off.
-
Blinds 2000/1000/100.
Thanks for all the feedback. Wasn"t really expecting so much. I make it 6 saying Call and 3 Fold, so I"m still not sure what the best play was. I think maybe wait, try to outplay the others to the cash and then go to war with him.
Anyway, I snap-called, he showed A7, hit a 7 and left me with 1k. I actually finished 5th because next hand he shoved again with A6, was called by AJ and hit a 6. Shortly after he knocked out 99 with 38. It was crazy because he had a huge pile of chips poured all over his part of the table as he wasn"t capable of stacking them. Of course he won the tournament. He was miles in front starting heads-up but then maniac 2 started going all-in blind, won a couple of hands but didn"t last long.
-
With blinds this size and against a maniac, I am calling this bet. With an M of just over 10 time is a critical factor. Unlucky BTW. :)
-
Blinds 2000/1000/100.
Thanks for all the feedback. Wasn"t really expecting so much. I make it 6 saying Call and 3 Fold, so I"m still not sure what the best play was. I think maybe wait, try to outplay the others to the cash and then go to war with him.
Anyway, I snap-called, he showed A7, hit a 7 and left me with 1k. I actually finished 5th because next hand he shoved again with A6, was called by AJ and hit a 6. Shortly after he knocked out 99 with 38. It was crazy because he had a huge pile of chips poured all over his part of the table as he wasn"t capable of stacking them. Of course he won the tournament. He was miles in front starting heads-up but then maniac 2 started going all-in blind, won a couple of hands but didn"t last long.
WP AMRN imo ;)
-
Blinds 2000/1000/100.
Thanks for all the feedback. Wasn"t really expecting so much. I make it 6 saying Call and 3 Fold, so I"m still not sure what the best play was. I think maybe wait, try to outplay the others to the cash and then go to war with him.
Anyway, I snap-called, he showed A7, hit a 7 and left me with 1k. I actually finished 5th because next hand he shoved again with A6, was called by AJ and hit a 6. Shortly after he knocked out 99 with 38. It was crazy because he had a huge pile of chips poured all over his part of the table as he wasn"t capable of stacking them. Of course he won the tournament. He was miles in front starting heads-up but then maniac 2 started going all-in blind, won a couple of hands but didn"t last long.
WP AMRN imo ;)
The fact that the blinds are this high and he is shoving weak A"s makes this soo much more of an ista fist-pump snap call!
-
the point is not to be results oriented, you made the right decision, he hit a 3 outer it can happen even if you have aces, and your not folding aces!
-
the point is not to be results oriented, you made the right decision, he hit a 3 outer it can happen even if you have aces, and your not folding aces!
/thread
-
the point is not to be results oriented, you made the right decision, he hit a 3 outer it can happen even if you have aces, and your not folding aces!
I wasn"t being results oriented - I said fold in the first instance before the result was known. OK by calling, we are an 80% favourite, but that"s irrelevant - against ATC we were much less than that, and as I said before I would prefer to be the one shoving here to give me an additional chance to win the hand.... I think calling in this spot against ATC for your tourney is not always the best move - so long as stacks still have enough play left in them so that you can continue to rape and pillage the blinds of the guys on your left. If we have a run on the rest of the table, lets just avoid confrontation with the big stack maniac, and crush the rest of the table to a point where said confrontation comes headsup.
-
the point is not to be results oriented, you made the right decision, he hit a 3 outer it can happen even if you have aces, and your not folding aces!
I wasn"t being results oriented - I said fold in the first instance before the result was known. OK by calling, we are an 80% favourite, but that"s irrelevant - against ATC we were much less than that, and as I said before I would prefer to be the one shoving here to give me an additional chance to win the hand.... I think calling in this spot against ATC for your tourney is not always the best move - so long as stacks still have enough play left in them so that you can continue to rape and pillage the blinds of the guys on your left. If we have a run on the rest of the table, lets just avoid confrontation with the big stack maniac, and crush the rest of the table to a point where said confrontation comes headsup.
know wat u mean but its hard to crush when the big stack is shoving every other hand. This is not a spot we can fold if we are shotting ftw!
-
if you fold AQ to this guy then you aren"t the one raping and pillaging (he is) and you HAVE to steal blinds just to maintain stack with rising blinds. At some point the guys who are short will have to take action and/or wake up with a hand.
call if you like winning money. Simple imo - you shouldn"t turn down huge +EV spots like this, unless you like min-cashes
-
if you fold AQ to this guy then you aren"t the one raping and pillaging (he is) and you HAVE to steal blinds just to maintain stack with rising blinds. At some point the guys who are short will have to take action and/or wake up with a hand.
call if you like winning money. Simple imo - you shouldn"t turn down huge +EV spots like this, unless you like min-cashes
/\ Call As above /\
Unless your aged 65 and want to limp into the third with the other two maniacs picking on you ;D
A 7 was a good flip for you (just unlucky this time)
-
-
the point is not to be results oriented, you made the right decision, he hit a 3 outer it can happen even if you have aces, and your not folding aces!
I wasn"t being results oriented - I said fold in the first instance before the result was known. OK by calling, we are an 80% favourite, but that"s irrelevant - against ATC we were much less than that, and as I said before I would prefer to be the one shoving here to give me an additional chance to win the hand.... I think calling in this spot against ATC for your tourney is not always the best move - so long as stacks still have enough play left in them so that you can continue to rape and pillage the blinds of the guys on your left. If we have a run on the rest of the table, lets just avoid confrontation with the big stack maniac, and crush the rest of the table to a point where said confrontation comes headsup.
i meant john was being results orientated, not you! i do see what you mean but the bottom line is you cant rape and pillage anyone if he is going to continue doing this....and if you keep folding it is just going to give him more encouragement. Calling for your tourney is not always the best move esp with aq off, but in this instance it most definately is!
-