Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: pokerpops on February 17, 2010, 14:25:45 PM

Title: Call?
Post by: pokerpops on February 17, 2010, 14:25:45 PM
2nd level of a small (20-30 runners) £10 weekly deepstack
Start with 10,000 chips
into the second level and I have c16,500 on the button with  kd qh
UTG min raises and gets two callers before me

I am very sure she has a small to medium pair here, played against her pretty often and my confidence is high on the read.

I raise to 600 and small blind calls - he thinks I"m "at it", especially since he called pre, flop  and turn before folding on the river to my bluff earlier.

Original raiser goes all in for an additional 5,050

I"m on a 45% chance to win the pot if she has an underpair which I am sure she does. If I call and lose I still have 11,000 chips, if I call and win I have over 21,000 (I believe SB will fold, again I"ve played with him a lot)

Insta call?
Considered call?
Insta fold?
Considered fold?
Toss a coin?
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: AMRN on February 17, 2010, 14:30:23 PM
insta-fold

you might have confidence in your read, but you have no way of knowing for certain that she has an underpair to your KQ. What else might she min-raise with? AA,KK,QQ,AK,AQ??   and even if she does have an underpair, why would you want to risk a third of your stack so early in a tourney in a situation where you are 50/50 at best, or 20/80 at worst.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: deanp27 on February 17, 2010, 15:06:26 PM
i wouldn"t 3bet KQ here and now i would fold very quickly
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: Marty719 on February 17, 2010, 15:08:21 PM
Rather than ne of ur options I will add:

Fold pre (and I usually advocate 3/b"n more thn most :) )

UTG + min raise = strong most of the time, and KQ just gets u in trouble.  As played, make the table smoulder with the speed u muck ur cards.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: WYoung83 on February 17, 2010, 16:37:07 PM
i would never 3 bet pre with kq in a scenario like this. Hand is too good to get forced into a fold preflop ( you wanna see a cheap flop with this). But you have now turned it into a bluff in this case. it is ok punishing weak limpers with hands like KQ because you may want to isolate them. And its ok doing a squeeze with 94o......but a squeeze with kq is not what i would do.

But now you have to insta fold. to many hands that you are way behind to, and not a good spot.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: bear21 on February 17, 2010, 20:15:11 PM
+1
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: mal666 on February 17, 2010, 20:33:30 PM

Lets say o/r flips 88 thinking everyone has passed. Do you call ?
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: duke3016 on February 17, 2010, 20:38:05 PM
even I would fold - must be going soft  ;D
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: WYoung83 on February 17, 2010, 21:06:24 PM
 Depends on structure mal, for me. If its going to be a fast crap shoot, then i take the flip early to get chips. if its a decant structure, then i play and grind away for a while playing poker untill i have to get it in, and hopefully it will be in a better spot.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: Swinebag on February 17, 2010, 21:29:53 PM
I call in position here and proceed with caution afterwards. As played, I"m mucking in an instant. I dont think you can narrow a players range to just small pairs because they min raise UTG (is this the only type of hand they do this with?) You dont need to be playing a big pot this early where you are flipping at best and dominated at worst.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: mal666 on February 17, 2010, 21:36:41 PM

I call in position here and proceed with caution afterwards. As played, I"m mucking in an instant. I dont think you can narrow a players range to just small pairs because they min raise UTG (is this the only type of hand they do this with?) You dont need to be playing a big pot this early where you are flipping at best and dominated at worst.

I just got the gist he was semi posting the result and wanted to know if peeps would flip this early.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: MintTrav on February 17, 2010, 21:49:46 PM
Get outta here - cluttering up the forum with your discussion of poker hands.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: pokerpops on February 17, 2010, 22:59:30 PM
It"s a very fast structure - 20mins for 1st three levels by which time we"re at 200/400.

I raised to get the pot down to just me and original raiser - if she just calls the raise I have a real chance of taking the pot with maybe a half pot bet on pretty much any flop (if my read is good and I have to play as though it is until something suggests I"m wrong).

The shove surprised me. Certainly got it down to just the two of us.

She had eights as it happens. Still all folding?
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: TheSnapper on February 17, 2010, 23:25:10 PM
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: AMRN on February 17, 2010, 23:29:37 PM
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: SirPercival on February 17, 2010, 23:31:52 PM
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: WYoung83 on February 18, 2010, 00:13:36 AM
Brendan, do you think about these calcs in you head when playing live or do you have to go on pokerstove afterwards?
i was thinking fold myself but im a new player playing old school ways.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: TheSnapper on February 18, 2010, 00:30:42 AM
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: TheSnapper on February 18, 2010, 00:43:26 AM

Brendan, do you think about these calcs in you head when playing live or do you have to go on pokerstove afterwards?
i was thinking fold myself but im a new player playing old school ways.


I wish! I really could"nt do these in play tbh. Basically, if you trick around with pokerstove, it can improve your feel for what is right at the time. At first it is really suprising how much more equity some hands have ( compared to what you would intuitively think).  But the better math type players ( sadly I"m not in this elite club ) have incredible intuitive understanding, way beyond this basic poker maths.

http://www.pokerstove.com/ (http://www.pokerstove.com/)
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: pokerpops on February 18, 2010, 10:10:37 AM
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: Marty719 on February 18, 2010, 11:42:38 AM
Even if it is close, y do u want to call off 30% of your stack at this stage wen u r 50/50 at best?
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: deanp27 on February 18, 2010, 12:49:37 PM


Lets say o/r flips 88 thinking everyone has passed. Do you call ?


ldo
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: George2Loose on February 20, 2010, 10:58:05 AM
Butchered. Just call pre.
Title: Re: Call?
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on February 20, 2010, 17:37:58 PM
Fold