Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 02:18:29 AM

Title: Too Many Satellites
Post by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 02:18:29 AM
I don"t usually post complaints but I have to say that I don"t like all the satellites for the live tournaments. There just seem to be too many. Just a couple of weeks ago I played Mon, Tue & Wed to try to get a seat for Swansea and ended up having to spend Thurs night at the computer as well to buy one. It looks like next week could well be the same with satellites for the UK Open unless I strike lucky enough to win one of the few seats available each time. The following week there are satellites for the UK Online, though they are more optional as there is no limit to the numbers who can buy in.

I don"t play the satellites to save the cost of the entry (in fact it cost me over £100 to get a seat for the Welsh Open) - I play them to try to secure a place. I really want to play these tournaments, so don"t want to disadvantage my chances of getting a place by skipping the satellites if other people are playing them, but I would prefer not to feel obliged to play them. The satellites are usually a good laugh but having up to four successive nights tied up where I cannot play live games or do other things is depressing, to say the least.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Marty719 on March 10, 2010, 07:21:14 AM
Just win a seat on the first night - easy game.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Digger on March 10, 2010, 10:07:20 AM

I don"t usually post complaints but I have to say that I don"t like all the satellites for the live tournaments. There just seem to be too many. Just a couple of weeks ago I played Mon, Tue & Wed to try to get a seat for Swansea and ended up having to spend Thurs night at the computer as well to buy one. It looks like next week could well be the same with satellites for the UK Open unless I strike lucky enough to win one of the few seats available each time. The following week there are satellites for the UK Online, though they are more optional as there is no limit to the numbers who can buy in.

I don"t play the satellites to save the cost of the entry (in fact it cost me over £100 to get a seat for the Welsh Open) - I play them to try to secure a place. I really want to play these tournaments, so don"t want to disadvantage my chances of getting a place by skipping the satellites if other people are playing them, but I would prefer not to feel obliged to play them. The satellites are usually a good laugh but having up to four successive nights tied up where I cannot play live games or do other things is depressing, to say the least.



Sorry but this is a crazy complaint.....it"s not all about you you know, not everyone has every night free to play, so to have different nights as options is fantastic, sometimes it pays to think about what you are saying before actually doing so......sorry to be so blunt MintTrav
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: shozboy1 on March 10, 2010, 11:16:33 AM
i think its a choice thing. You dont have to play these
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 14:35:14 PM

Just win a seat on the first night - easy game.

Deliberately misses the point but predictable. I wondered who would be the one to post this.


i think its a choice thing. You dont have to play these

Yeah, I know. Can"t argue with that.


sometimes it pays to think about what you are saying before actually doing so

Don"t really know how to respond to someone who thinks it is acceptable to post something like that.
Let us know when you have something constructive to say.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Swinebag on March 10, 2010, 14:49:43 PM
I dont agree with your OP John. I think the number of satellites is spot on.

If we only had one chance then, yes we would have 2 nights to do other things (or rather you would ;D) but in terms of variance, one bullet at qualifying would leave players one cold deck or bad beat from relying on a clickfest. With 3 sattys, you do have more chance to run better and qualify.

The other good thing with 3 sattys is that players who have other commitments on other nights during the week are at least more able to have a chance to qualify.

As another poster alluded to, I think your arguments for less satellites come from a more self serving purpose rather than one that is best suited to the membership.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 15:21:55 PM

If we only had one chance then, yes we would have 2 nights to do other things (or rather you would ;D) but in terms of variance, one bullet at qualifying would leave players one cold deck or bad beat from relying on a clickfest. With 3 sattys, you do have more chance to run better and qualify.

I understand this and can see your point.


The other good thing with 3 sattys is that players who have other commitments on other nights during the week are at least more able to have a chance to qualify.

I understand this and can see your point.


As another poster alluded to, I think your arguments for less satellites come from a more self serving purpose rather than one that is best suited to the membership.

I don"t understand this.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Swinebag on March 10, 2010, 15:34:55 PM


As another poster alluded to, I think your arguments for less satellites come from a more self serving purpose rather than one that is best suited to the membership.

I don"t understand this.


sorry John, I do get my words jumbled up at times. What I meant was this.


it"s not all about you, you know


I know this thread is in its infancy, but I would be surprised if there are many members who agree with you on this. If there were, they would certainly be outnubered by those who prefer three chances to qualify, or more importantly, those with a choice of 3 nights.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: AMRN on March 10, 2010, 15:45:47 PM

I know this thread is in its infancy, but I would be surprised if there are many members who agree with you on this. If there were, they would certainly be outnubered by those who prefer three chances to qualify, or more importantly, those with a choice of 3 nights.


^This.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Marty719 on March 10, 2010, 15:49:06 PM


I know this thread is in its infancy, but I would be surprised if there are many members who agree with you on this. If there were, they would certainly be outnubered by those who prefer three chances to qualify, or more importantly, those with a choice of 3 nights.


^This.


^That.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Roscopiko on March 10, 2010, 15:50:53 PM



I know this thread is in its infancy, but I would be surprised if there are many members who agree with you on this. If there were, they would certainly be outnubered by those who prefer three chances to qualify, or more importantly, those with a choice of 3 nights.


^This.


^That.



& the other
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 16:23:24 PM
Fine, whatever - I don"t feel that strongly about it. I actually enjoy the satellites as there is always a lively exchange of opinion. I posted this after one of the WCOAP satellites:

I missed Monday"s one but last night & tonight were the best laugh I"ve had playing poker since........................well since the last time.


I just felt that I had spent the best part of a week on the Swansea seat and could forsee the same thing happening next week and several times during the year. But if that"s what people want then I"ll go with the flow.

What I really don"t understand though is how an innocuous post about the number of satellites could provoke such attacks. How is it self-serving or all about me? I used my experience as an example, but it is the same for everyone else. What on earth are you on about?
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: coprey on March 10, 2010, 16:29:43 PM

Fine, whatever - I don"t feel that strongly about it. I actually enjoy the satellites as there is always a lively exchange of opinion. I posted this after one of the WCOAP satellites:

I missed Monday"s one but last night & tonight were the best laugh I"ve had playing poker since........................well since the last time.


I just felt that I had spent the best part of a week on the Swansea seat and could forsee the same thing happening next week and several times during the year. But if that"s what people want then I"ll go with the flow.

What I really don"t understand though is how an innocuous post about the number of satellites could provoke such attacks. How is it self-serving or all about me? I used my experience as an example, but it is the same for everyone else. What on earth are you on about?


John, you have spent almost as much time, thinking about and writing these posts as you spent playing satellites last week. :D Are you sure you have better things to do? ;)
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: MintTrav on March 10, 2010, 16:34:55 PM


Fine, whatever - I don"t feel that strongly about it. I actually enjoy the satellites as there is always a lively exchange of opinion. I posted this after one of the WCOAP satellites:

I missed Monday"s one but last night & tonight were the best laugh I"ve had playing poker since........................well since the last time.


I just felt that I had spent the best part of a week on the Swansea seat and could forsee the same thing happening next week and several times during the year. But if that"s what people want then I"ll go with the flow.

What I really don"t understand though is how an innocuous post about the number of satellites could provoke such attacks. How is it self-serving or all about me? I used my experience as an example, but it is the same for everyone else. What on earth are you on about?


John, you have spent almost as much time, thinking about and writing these posts as you spent playing satellites last week. :D Are you sure you have better things to do? ;)


LOL
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Swinebag on March 10, 2010, 17:34:38 PM
I didn"t think my post was that much of an attack. Sorry if it came across that way. I was merely questioning the motivation for wanting less satellites.

I understand, your predicament about having to potentially play lots of games to qualify for an event. I had 3 deep runs for nought (and a few shallow ones too) in my (failed) attempt to qualify for the Irish open. My life and bankroll would have been a lot better off if I only had to play one, but at no point did I think it worthy of complaining about the number of sattys there.



Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: scouse3465 on March 10, 2010, 18:07:21 PM
Just read your post John and not all replies so sorry if i repeat anything! At the end of the day in my opinion the more satellites the better. I know some would prefer to buy in . And this may sound silly with the amount of luck boxes that win at poker, but sattys by far the fairest way. Being able to register quick on a thurs is pure luck ! Or fast fingers and when you have fingers like sausages (mine!) its hard lol.
i would prefer all seats sold by satellites but one thing i would change would be weekly twice weekly over a course of weeks in between so if you away for a week you dont miss the lot !
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Jon MW on March 10, 2010, 18:31:02 PM
I think there should be less satellites.

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: duke3016 on March 10, 2010, 18:55:25 PM
Satellites are fun (esp rebuys)
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: bear21 on March 10, 2010, 19:10:49 PM
Only when were on your table LOL ;)
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Geo on March 10, 2010, 19:45:52 PM

I think there should be less satellites.

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?


I know you"ll disagree Jon, you just do, however:

Surely this actually makes a case for there being more sats for the swansea event. Rather than giving people a 5 min opportunity to attempt to reg on the lobby clickfest, have sat only qualification and overall the more skillful players should win seats as opposed to fastest finger first.

FWIW I think the sats are fine as they are. I actually played all 3 because I was unable to make the clickfest. More options available the better imho

Geo
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Jon MW on March 10, 2010, 19:55:34 PM


I think there should be less satellites.

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?


I know you"ll disagree Jon, you just do, however:

Surely this actually makes a case for there being more sats for the swansea event. Rather than giving people a 5 min opportunity to attempt to reg on the lobby clickfest, have sat only qualification and overall the more skillful players should win seats as opposed to fastest finger first.

FWIW I think the sats are fine as they are. I actually played all 3 because I was unable to make the clickfest. More options available the better imho

Geo


This is the bit I disagree with, when you had to fill in loads of details then almost everybody who wanted to was still able to get in - - but - - at least there is an argument that it unfairly favoured the faster typists.

But now the registration is so simple that nobody has any advantage as long as they have a stable internet connection (and if you don"t then you"re going to have a problem with the satellites as well)


Actually I disagree with the opinion that satellite only means that the most skillfull players get a seat as well.

The event we want a seat in is a deepstack live freezeout - the satellites are fast online satellites

You can be good at fast tournaments and not good at deepstacks
You can be good at online tournaments and not good at playing live
You can be good at satellites and not good at freezeouts

So seats only available by this route could easily mean a championship event full of great online players while all the great live players are sat at home
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Paulie_D on March 10, 2010, 20:06:08 PM

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?


I think you"re comparing apples & oranges here Jon.

Swansea is an aberation for S4. There were only 67 seats left after the satellites which, as you say, sold out in 5 minutes.

If we scale this up to the pre-S4 normal size of 200* seats then 15 minutes would have been about right.

*Don"t get me started on the reduced normal number in S4

Personally, I think 3 satellites for a live event is about right...squarely in the middle between not enough and too many. I"ll generally only play the higher priced one and if I"m unlucky (as is usual) then I"ll go for the click regfest,

However, I agree that there should ALWAYS be a non-sat way to enter. Some of us are better live than online.
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Geo on March 10, 2010, 20:11:05 PM
I"ll agree to disagree. Most of the APAT bigger online winners that I know are amongst the top APAT live players also.

Geo
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: rivertaff on March 11, 2010, 20:37:46 PM

I think there should be less satellites.

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?


If it took 5mins to sell the 67 seats, then the extra 23 seats from the sats would have extended the "Bingo Game" of clicking a button the fastest by approx 1 min 40 seconds.

Yes, the sats do involve a fair bit of luck, they must do I qualified. But to replace the sats with an extra 100 seconds of button clicking IMHO is madness.

The sats give you 3 options of evening, the clickfest has only one. Maybe because of the geography Swansea may not have had massive demand, but for the North West, Midlands and London events it would only be a measure of reaction time.

At least the sats represent something more akin to the event you are entering, than finger licking clicking.

There was also the fact that 10 seats were kept back for Betfair. Will 10 seats (or 10% of the seats in the case of Swansea) be kept for Betfair in every "main event"?
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Jon MW on March 11, 2010, 20:52:53 PM


I think there should be less satellites.

The Swansea seats, for example, sold out in about 5 minutes.

This is one of the smallest venues and 5 minutes to click to register is still quite a long time.

But, if less seats were given to satellites then it would take even longer for the direct entries to sell out - so however sausagey your fingers then having 6 or 7 or 8 minutes to click on register and enter a password really should be enough, shouldn"t it?


If it took 5mins to sell the 67 seats, then the extra 23 seats from the sats would have extended the "Bingo Game" of clicking a button the fastest by approx 1 min 40 seconds.

...


No it wouldn"t.

The seats sold leapt up almost instantly - that was the people who were there waiting for it
The last 20 or so seats slowly ticked up until they were all sold, that"s why I suggested an extra 2-4 minutes for the extra seats, the average time to sell was fast - but that was only because of how many went instantly.

"Bingo Game"? how long do you need to click a button?
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: BOINGBLITZ on March 14, 2010, 01:33:47 AM
John.....u know full well that you wont be able to play much anyway now that the Grand Prix season has started again. Saw your interview on BBC1 yesterday by the way. It looks warm out there in Bahrain.
 One thing I didn"t get though......why did he keep calling you Damon ??
Title: Re: Too Many Satellites
Post by: Joker161 on March 19, 2010, 07:25:32 AM
The very first post on this thread said that one has to play sats to make sure you get into the live event, because the clickfest at 9pm on Thursday is too risky.

In my experience, it doesn"t seem too difficult to get in at 9pm on Thursdays. As long as you are at your computer at one second past 9pm and know where to find the "holding tank" it seems fairly straightforward. It was more hassle last year, but one still seemed likely to get a seat if you were clicking within the first minute.