Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: AceOnTheRiver on May 04, 2010, 18:59:39 PM

Title: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AceOnTheRiver on May 04, 2010, 18:59:39 PM
Playing the SCOOP (L) $22 6-max, approx 3 hours in with around 18 x bb.

My image is reasonably tight and I have folded to a few pre-flop 4-bets having opened, however the villain hasn"t been at our table too long.

In this hand the villain opens for a min-raise from MP and I call from the BB with 78o - we are heads up.

I check the 256 rainbow flop and he leads out with a pot sized bet.

I shove over the top with my open-ended straight draw.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AMRN on May 04, 2010, 19:03:48 PM
with 18xBB, and in the need of action, I would probably take exactly this line. He may fold out a lot of hands that are miles ahead of you; if he calls with overcards you are racing; and if he calls with an overpair you still have a decent bunch of outs. 

Nowt wrong here.
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: deanp27 on May 04, 2010, 20:22:57 PM
what else are you going to do if you call a raise with 78o this shallow and flop half the world for your hand?

there is realistically no other line you can take, certainly in the absence of opponent reads
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AceOnTheRiver on May 04, 2010, 21:30:45 PM
Thanks for the responses Steve & Dean.

For me it was pretty straightforward too - as Dean says if you call and hit that flop what else are you going to do?

The reason I posted was the abuse I received in the chatbox when the villain called with 54 (54!!) giving me more outs than I thought and I spiked the 7.

Given this reaction I wanted to canvass opinion - Thanks again
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: deanp27 on May 04, 2010, 22:13:18 PM
don"t worry what losing villains say lol
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: Swinebag on May 04, 2010, 22:25:53 PM

don"t worry what losing villains say lol


this

A lot of people will say fold pre flop is the correct play, and with 18BB you just about have a restealing stack here. Given the lack of read here, taking a flop OOP with 78o isn"t the worst play. That flop is as good as it gets so well done on CRAI and even better on winning

when he abused you I hope you said

"but its my favourite hand"
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: PHIL_TC on May 05, 2010, 01:06:25 AM

Playing the SCOOP (L) $22 6-max, approx 3 hours in with around 18 x bb.

My image is reasonably tight and I have folded to a few pre-flop 4-bets having opened, however the villain hasn"t been at our table too long.

In this hand the villain opens for a min-raise from MP and I call from the BB with 78o - we are heads up.

I check the 256 rainbow flop and he leads out with a pot sized bet.

I shove over the top with my open-ended straight draw.

Thoughts?


Fish  ;)
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AMRN on May 05, 2010, 10:02:41 AM

when he abused you I hope you said

"but its my favourite hand"


I thought the standard line was...... "but I had a feeling", or... "I sensed it was coming".

Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: cincicrappykid on May 05, 2010, 10:34:25 AM


Playing the SCOOP (L) $22 6-max, approx 3 hours in with around 18 x bb.

My image is reasonably tight and I have folded to a few pre-flop 4-bets having opened, however the villain hasn"t been at our table too long.

In this hand the villain opens for a min-raise from MP and I call from the BB with 78o - we are heads up.

I check the 256 rainbow flop and he leads out with a pot sized bet.

I shove over the top with my open-ended straight draw.

WHO CARES

Thoughts?


Fish  ;)
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: Marty719 on May 05, 2010, 16:59:00 PM
Im check shoving a LOT lighter than this on this board!!  There isnt even an option to do anything else!!
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: Pears27 on May 05, 2010, 19:48:42 PM
It should be him posting on this board, gauging opinion on his call with 2nd pair no kicker. Your hand plays itself imo.
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: mousebob on May 10, 2010, 17:18:27 PM

It should be him posting on this board, gauging opinion on his call with 2nd pair no kicker. Your hand plays itself imo.

My thoughts exactly. Although he may be a little embarrassed by the "interesting" way
he played the hand!
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: noble1 on May 10, 2010, 19:22:37 PM

Playing the SCOOP (L) $22 6-max, approx 3 hours in with around 18 x bb.

My image is reasonably tight and I have folded to a few pre-flop 4-bets having opened, however the villain hasn"t been at our table too long.

In this hand the villain opens for a min-raise from MP and I call from the BB with 78o - we are heads up.

I check the 256 rainbow flop and he leads out with a pot sized bet.

I shove over the top with my open-ended straight draw.

Thoughts?


hmmm 18bb at approx 300/600 ante 70 and you check raise all in with basically no fold equity ..

pre flop pot 9 handed is 1530 , 2xbb minraise and u call ... flop 256r pot is 3330 and he bets pot and u check raise 18bb
10800 , so now to villain the pot is 17460 and it costs him 7470 to call [2.33 to 1 ... 30% equity]

u may think he is awful to call u but u really need to pokerstove what he might think your range would be here , his perceived awful call may not look quite so bad... :)

u have no read on him , he has not seen u folding to 3bets as he has only just joined the table ... You are only 18bb deep and your flatting oop with no reads and then choose to check raise after seeing a pot bet and expect a fold a high percentage of the time???

why is not shoving pre the bettter option??
why is not a go+go not a better option??
why is not folding pre a better option??
if u feel u have to call 1bb oop why is not seeing a flop and donk betting not a better option??
do u think choosing to check raise with your stack size after villain bets pot is the best option??

whats your plan if u miss the flop with your fairly shallow stack??

board -  :2c: 5d 6h
villain - 54s  51.930%  [54o is 50.4% against a strongish range he might put u on to check raise]
yourself - 22+,87s,76s,AJo-ATo,87o  48.070%


FISH ??????
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AceOnTheRiver on May 10, 2010, 20:58:45 PM
Quote
hmmm 18bb at approx 300/600 ante 70 and you check raise all in with basically no fold equity


Where are you getting these numbers from - I didn"t post the blinds and I can"t remember them now but I definitely had fold equity (remember the SCOOP has a very slow structure). When that flop hits CRAI is always my plan, though I can see the argument for donk lead.

Quote
pre flop pot 9 handed is 1530 , 2xbb minraise and u call


Remember this is 6-max so your pot figures are out

Quote
u may think he is awful to call u but u really need to pokerstove what he might think your range would be here , his perceived awful call may not look quite so bad...


I didn"t say his call was awful, yes I was surprised by his holding when he did call, but it was him criticising my play (and with some vitriol too) which lead me to post

Quote
whats your plan if u miss the flop with your fairly shallow stack??


Fold - simple. I still have a playable stack.

Quote
FISH


Errr, no!
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: noble1 on May 10, 2010, 21:16:40 PM

Playing the SCOOP (L) $22 6-max, approx 3 hours in with around 18 x bb.

thoughts?


event1 scoop 6max 250k gtd at 3 hours in at 15 min levels would be 300/600 ante 70...

6handed pot pre 1320  , min raise 1200 u call for 600 more = 3120 .. he bets pot = 6240 , u check raise 18bb [18x600 = 10800] , after check raise the pot is 17040 and it is 7680 to for him to call which is 2.21 to call [31.1% equity]

sorry i gave some honest critique , i think how u played this was by far the worst option in this situation given your stack size and position... just my opinion...gave u my thoughts :)
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: AceOnTheRiver on May 10, 2010, 22:30:01 PM
No need to apologise for honest critique, that"s why I started the thread. I was surprised by the abuse at the time and accusations of bad play so I thought I would get some feedback from here, and now I have a range of views.

TY

Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: noble1 on May 11, 2010, 05:12:02 AM

No need to apologise for honest critique, that"s why I started the thread. I was surprised by the abuse at the time and accusations of bad play so I thought I would get some feedback from here, and now I have a range of views.

TY


In this situation with your stack size imho u picked the worst way to play it , check raising all in after seeing him pot it..
If he were to check the flop then depending what comes on 4th street i can see some benefit to betting the turn..
I can see more benefit to donk betting , although at this stack size i"d prefer it if u had developed some sorta read on villain...Other obv options like folding,shoving and 3betting are not mentioned ?
Why are u gambling on a oesd with this line of play though AOTR ?  
Am i missing something here? when i saw the replies and no one disagreeing or questioning your line of play tbh i was very surprised ..
I do not think you got this -
Quote
I was surprised by the abuse at the time and accusations of bad play so I thought I would get some feedback from here, and now I have a range of views.


http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-forums/7/how-to-play-pps-in-ep-with-short-med-stack-114388
annettes strategy with certain pairs with short to medium stacks in mtts , what do you think she"d do with 78o ?

http://www.pocketfives.com/8A6504A5-308E-4066-88DE-74E0924731F4.aspx
apes reply is good reading........

Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: Waz1892 on May 11, 2010, 08:47:16 AM
noble,

I think you should join here to continue this well developing debate..

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=2354.0

:)
Title: Re: Anything wrong with this play?
Post by: shozboy1 on May 16, 2010, 19:08:33 PM
I would"ve folded this preflop due to our stack size