Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: SirPercival on August 30, 2010, 20:40:15 PM
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Not sure if APAt intend to put up a thread for this.
In the "Ask APAt" session that took place during the live feed tonight Des asked for feedback so I thought I would start the ball rolling with my views.
First of all the live feed is a fantastic addition IMO.
However there are 2 major downsides
1 - APAt pay for this, and as Des said at the time this takes money away from the players in the form of added value etc.
2 - The live updates suffer as a result of resources put into the live feed. The updates were previously fantastic and were a great record of the event to look back on. You can"t "rewind" the live feed so if you are playing then you get none of it.
Some questions
How many people watch the live feed?
What does it cost in money and time to provide this service?
Is it worth it?
My vote would be to bring back the taped interviews with Des (or Tighty or Leigh) and put the time into the updates. As good as the live feed is, personally I would ditch it.
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Not sure if APAt intend to put up a thread for this.
In the "Ask APAt" session that took place during the live feed tonight Des asked for feedback so I thought I would start the ball rolling with my views.
First of all the live feed is a fantastic addition IMO.
However there are 2 major downsides
1 - APAt pay for this, and as Des said at the time this takes money away from the players in the form of added value etc.
2 - The live updates suffer as a result of resources put into the live feed. The updates were previously fantastic and were a great record of the event to look back on. You can"t "rewind" the live feed so if you are playing then you get none of it.
Some questions
How many people watch the live feed?
What does it cost in money and time to provide this service?
Is it worth it?
My vote would be to bring back the taped interviews with Des (or Tighty or Leigh) and put the time into the updates. As good as the live feed is, personally I would ditch it.
They are interesting questions - I"d probably agree with the conclusion as well, the live feeds are good - but I don"t think they"re worth it.
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I completely disagree....the Live Stream is a great addition and adds so much, especially if you can"t be there.
Obviously the updating has suffered and I think Des, Tighty and Leigh are well aware of it. However, live forum updates are enormously labour intensive and require a skillset that is not easy to find...especially working for the love of it in the main.
I"ve sat at the table and listened to the APAT lads and lasses talk about this and it"s not an issue they are ignoring or are unaware of.
I"d love to be able to say that I volunteered but I"d rather be playing and I suspect most of us would too. That"s not to say I won"t post if I"m out....I"d be happy to but I usually run deep ;D.
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APAt pay for this, and as Des said at the time this takes money away from the players in the form of added value etc.
Just on this point, although the funds used are "lost" in not going towards additional seats etc...they are "gained" by adding value to the experience for the members who couldn"t be there.
I see it as shifting the value to the larger member base rather than taking it away from the players.
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I have to agree the live feed is a tremendous way of providing support to followers who simply cannot make it, maybe a way forward with this is to actually record this (this is what I have done when not at events when following particular players, I wont post the vids here from some of the old events but it is a very easy process and once done can be uploaded to Youtube) Revenues can be regained by producing dvds and selling alongside the merchandise and at future events, I would have loved to have a video memory of the event and I am sure that many other players feel the same way. I was quite gutted that due to unforseen circumstances we had to pull out of the HORSE at the last minute and special thanks to Leigh for sorting everything out. Would like to say, it was a pleasure as well sharing a couple of tables with Paul P, a true gent of the game.
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Can I add that if they are going to continue then please improve the sound quality.
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Not sure if APAt intend to put up a thread for this.
In the "Ask APAt" session that took place during the live feed tonight Des asked for feedback so I thought I would start the ball rolling with my views.
First of all the live feed is a fantastic addition IMO.
However there are 2 major downsides
1 - APAt pay for this, and as Des said at the time this takes money away from the players in the form of added value etc.
2 - The live updates suffer as a result of resources put into the live feed. The updates were previously fantastic and were a great record of the event to look back on. You can"t "rewind" the live feed so if you are playing then you get none of it.
Some questions
How many people watch the live feed?
What does it cost in money and time to provide this service?
Is it worth it?
My vote would be to bring back the taped interviews with Des (or Tighty or Leigh) and put the time into the updates. As good as the live feed is, personally I would ditch it.
I have to agree with Stuart on these points. Although the live feed is a good addition, to not be able to go back over the live update thread and recap over the days of the championship as very little is said in the way of how it went, and as Stuart has rightly pointed out, you cannot rewind live feed.
Gone are the days when u had spent 2 days playing to come home and have a look back at it all and enjoy the full update, now it is barely used.
Also, its quite frustrating sitting here losing sound, getting to key moments in the tournament live on apat tv to find its gone down, or the sound is an issue etc.
I understand you all are working flat out, but if it aint broke dont fix it springs to mind and it worked brilliantly just having the live forum updates rather than the video feed.
If there was a way to do both fair enough, but for someone who has gotten deep in a tournament to come home the next day and want to recap over it all, there is nothing to see.
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Good debate and feedback on this is very welcome
I currently feel I don"t do both well. the live update compared to what I can do if concentrating on it 100% (hands, content, humour and descriptions), the commentary because its a learning curve.. ...
Will answer properly when I wake up on Friday lolol
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Good debate and feedback on this is very welcome
I currently feel I don"t do both well. the live update compared to what I can do if concentrating on it 100% (hands, content, humour and descriptions), the commentary because its a learning curve.. ...
Will answer properly when I wake up on Friday lolol
You do both very well.
Just not at the same time.
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Good debate and feedback on this is very welcome
I currently feel I don"t do both well. the live update compared to what I can do if concentrating on it 100% (hands, content, humour and descriptions), the commentary because its a learning curve.. ...
Will answer properly when I wake up on Friday lolol
You do both very well.
Just not at the same time.
+1
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APAt pay for this, and as Des said at the time this takes money away from the players in the form of added value etc.
Just on this point, although the funds used are "lost" in not going towards additional seats etc...they are "gained" by adding value to the experience for the members who couldn"t be there.
I see it as shifting the value to the larger member base rather than taking it away from the players.
Actually on this point as well.
When I"m not playing an APAT tournament, I"m usually not in a position to follow the live feed for the whole of the tournament either.
When I get online it used to be much more possible for "the larger member base" to catch up on what had been going on in the tournament by reading the updates - now you are most likely to only be able to find who has been knocked out and what is currently going on.
If you can follow the whole tournament from the live feed then it"s certainly an improvement for all those members - but I don"t think there are many people who are in a position to do that.
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As a new APT"er I have really enjoyed the coverage that I have been able to catch, but more importantly, it has given me the incentive to come and play live. For me the live feed really captures the atmosphere and competitive nature that seems to be associated with APAT events so, simply from a business point of view I would see it as a fantastic marketing tool for new and long term members.
However, I can fully understand that as a more regular player you may want more detailed information and a record that you can look back on after tournaments. I can see it as a tough balancing act with resources tight and dont envy you!
Great coverage all :-)
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
Live update as it is a record to look back on with added recorded video content like the good old days.
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
Live updates as you can deliver more information on more players to appease a wider audience.
Would also be cool if players could also text their own updates.
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
Live updates as you can deliver more information on more players to appease a wider audience.
Would also be cool if players could also text their own updates.
Cracking idea!
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
Live updates as you can deliver more information on more players to appease a wider audience.
Would also be cool if players could also text their own updates.
Cracking idea!
That"s not such a bad idea.
I used text to advise Amanda of some of the updates, whilst I was watching table 14 today.
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Would it be cheaper if audio only? Don"t see much point of the pictures.
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Live update, not only as a record to look back on when you return home, but the banter, the "audience" participation you always did Richard was always good fun, and the added videos you had recorded with members was good to watch over and over specially the funny ones.
Now there seems to be no atmosphere with the updates, yes its live, yes its in the spot interviewing, reporting etc, but the good craic and enjoyment that came from your live updates has gone.
Plus when one is out, at a party, wedding, work, wherever we are sat there unable to follow whats going on fully as can"t get the live feed either on their works pc or on their phones.
You do a fantastic job at both, dont get me wrong, but your presence is better received on the live updates forum.
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I like the Live Feed. It"s the next best thing to actually standing and railing at the table, the commentary supplements anything you can"t see too clearly. It captures the environment, the atmosphere and the action in a way the written word cannot. In an ideal world I"d like both the Live Feed and the Live Update.
;D
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I couldn"t make the Swansea or Aberdeen events this year, and whilst at home, sat and watched the Live Feed avidly - absolutely fantastic! However, having just got home from DTD, I wanted to recap the week from the Live Update threads, but that"s not really possible.
We need to question and understand who the updates (feed or online) are targetted for.
- If it"s for APAT players then the Live Feed is unnecessary, as APAT players are either playing or are likely to be doing other stuff (the reason why they aren"t playing.
- If it"s for friends and family of APAT players, then the Live Feed works well
Given that the majority of people who will have a real interest in this are the APAT players themselves, I suggest that the Live Update thread carries more value than the Live Feed. Not only does it provide updates along the way for watching interested parties, it also provides a partial record of the event. (I still look back at the Walsall Live Update threads every now and then!)
Also, the Live Update thread is all encompassing - the Live Feed is very focussed at specific tables.....
Lastly, if the Live Feed is to continue, is there any chance that it can be recorded and published for replay?
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I couldn"t make the Swansea or Aberdeen events this year, and whilst at home, sat and watched the Live Feed avidly - absolutely fantastic! However, having just got home from DTD, I wanted to recap the week from the Live Update threads, but that"s not really possible.
We need to question and understand who the updates (feed or online) are targetted for.
- If it"s for APAT players then the Live Feed is unnecessary, as APAT players are either playing or are likely to be doing other stuff (the reason why they aren"t playing.
- If it"s for friends and family of APAT players, then the Live Feed works well
Given that the majority of people who will have a real interest in this are the APAT players themselves, I suggest that the Live Update thread carries more value than the Live Feed. Not only does it provide updates along the way for watching interested parties, it also provides a partial record of the event. (I still look back at the Walsall Live Update threads every now and then!)
Also, the Live Update thread is all encompassing - the Live Feed is very focussed at specific tables.....
Lastly, if the Live Feed is to continue, is there any chance that it can be recorded and published for replay?
was gna write a reply, but its easier to write...this^^^^^
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
Live update as it is a record to look back on with added recorded video content like the good old days.
+1
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I completely disagree....the Live Stream is a great addition and adds so much, especially if you can"t be there.
+1
Having been lucky enough to make the feature table a couple of times over this weekend, having friends and family being able to rail you is fantastic. Being able to prove to the girlfriend that you are indeed away playing poker and not ignoring her phone calls is priceless :)
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I completely disagree....the Live Stream is a great addition and adds so much, especially if you can"t be there.
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I think the wording is correct there - the live stream would be a great addition and would add a lot to the live updating.
But although there is a remnant of live updating, effectively the live stream hasn"t been added to the Live Updating - it"s replaced it.
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But although there is a remnant of live updating, effectively the live stream hasn"t been added to the Live Updating - it"s replaced it.
You are right Jon, I never meant to imply otherwise. I have a tough time deciding whether I want to volunteer to help out with the Forum updating or playing in the events.
So far, playing has always won out.
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In my opinion the commentaries are absolutely superb and recreate the atmosphere on their own without the pictures.
I think a roaming commentary backed up by a live update would be the way to go, giving more freedom to give more information on more players rather than those just on the featured table. This option would hopefully get the service users interacting by asking for chips counts or player interviews which could be acted upon in very short time, with the added benefit of cost saving from the picture crew.
And for anybody watching yesterday apologies for the yellow shirt, bad choice on my part, but at least it has APAT close to my heart which is a good thing. ::)
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No contest, the live feed is great for anyone who cant be there, the updates were great but to see the game has got to be the way foreward
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So...the issues appear to be:
- We like the Live TV Feed but it"s limited to just a small section of the play and is often just players" backs. ;D
- We like the Live Commentaries
- The Forum Updates were much better in the past and have suffered. I think everyone agrees.
- The Forum Updates provide a bigger overall picture and a permanent record of what has happened which (at present) the TV feed cannot.
Any more?
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So...the issues appear to be:
- We like the Live TV Feed but it"s limited to just a small section of the play and is often just players" backs. ;D
- We like the Live Commentaries
- The Forum Updates were much better in the past and have suffered. I think everyone agrees.
- The Forum Updates provide a bigger overall picture and a permanent record of what has happened which (at present) the TV feed cannot.
Any more?
Ability to store and replay the Live Feed would be appreciated....
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or break live feed into segments and put it up - this would make it easier to find certain things. Each segment could have a very short synopsis of what it contains.
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or break live feed into segments and put it up - this would make it easier to find certain things. Each segment could have a very short synopsis of what it contains.
I think I get what you"re saying but this isn"t practical at the moment. The Live Feed is based on the cameras staying still and focusing on a single table (or perhaps two at a stretch).
If the camera could move from table to table, at will, with a commentator in tow then a recap could be put up on the forum. Just at the moment, it can"t.
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... I much preferred the live updates as they were ...
Live feed ... Surreal/vaguely hypnotic experience with Tighty commentating behind me right at the end of day 1B ...
If there is value added to free up then I would ditch the cameras ...
L
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If you had to choose the Live feed OR the live update...which one, and why?
To this direct question it"s Live Updates for me. It"s a great way to catch up on a tourney you"ve been in as I did when I got home last night and wanted to rail Phil_TC if it was Live Feed only then I would have missed this.
Also if you are not at the tournament you can read the updates thread in the evening as if it were happening live and "catch-up" (like when you used to watch Match of The Day without knowing the score) With the live feed you have to watch the lot and, as commented, you only get the one table with occassional roving commentary.
Lots of valid points have been raised and I have to say the Live Feed is a fantastic addition, but to the direct question of which one and why, It"s the Live Update ftw for me!
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The live feed is enjoyable, and gives an impression of the atmosphere, but the updates with hand details was actually a better record of the day, and now with the feed in place very few hand details are posted. So if I had to vote for one or the other I would lose the cameras.
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There is a valid point that should not be missed. The live feed gives the opportunity to showcase the sponsor and the event to viewers and potential new members whose attention you will only ever have for a very short period of time. They would never read the live update thread. That adds value for the sponsor, and in turn adds value to the events.
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Just to add, and thank you for all the views, the added complexity here is that Leigh and I might be trying to do a live update or a feed or both..we try to do both...but often admin and organisational stuff gets in the way of being able to give a live update, in particular, full attention. This is especially the case during alternates periods, when side events hit finals/start and towards the end of Day 1.
So its not quite as simple as "One on the feed, one on the update" with the fantastic volunteers doing what they can do around that.
Really the whole issue, over and above cost and providing content that viewers and players want to see, is about the resource we dedicate to live events and what the prioirities are.
It was a simpler world with Live Updates Only, but not necessarily better...once the live feed genie is out of the bottle its not easy to say "right, updates only again"!
I look at the parallel with say AWOP at GUKPTs who have two people full time on the live update (one writing, one photos) and another two full time on the feed (commentator and cameraman/mixing desk) and think they do a pretty good job...but they aren"t helping run the event too.
So these are the issues at hand anyway....certainly to be addressed for Season 5.
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There is a valid point that should not be missed. The live feed gives the opportunity to showcase the sponsor and the event to viewers and potential new members whose attention you will only ever have for a very short period of time. They would never read the live update thread. That adds value for the sponsor, and in turn adds value to the events.
Good point, well made! ;)
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There is a valid point that should not be missed. The live feed gives the opportunity to showcase the sponsor and the event to viewers and potential new members whose attention you will only ever have for a very short period of time. They would never read the live update thread. That adds value for the sponsor, and in turn adds value to the events.
Good point, well made! ;)
Was just about to say this. It was watching the live feed on Thursday that motivated me to come and play the Pro event on Friday.
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I couldn"t make the Swansea or Aberdeen events this year, and whilst at home, sat and watched the Live Feed avidly - absolutely fantastic! However, having just got home from DTD, I wanted to recap the week from the Live Update threads, but that"s not really possible.
We need to question and understand who the updates (feed or online) are targetted for.
- If it"s for APAT players then the Live Feed is unnecessary, as APAT players are either playing or are likely to be doing other stuff (the reason why they aren"t playing.
- If it"s for friends and family of APAT players, then the Live Feed works well
Given that the majority of people who will have a real interest in this are the APAT players themselves, I suggest that the Live Update thread carries more value than the Live Feed. Not only does it provide updates along the way for watching interested parties, it also provides a partial record of the event. (I still look back at the Walsall Live Update threads every now and then!)
Also, the Live Update thread is all encompassing - the Live Feed is very focussed at specific tables.....
Lastly, if the Live Feed is to continue, is there any chance that it can be recorded and published for replay?
Steve"s post pretty much covers it for me.
I like retracing the live update thread, whether I have busted out or have missed the whole event: I know I can sit for an hour or so and go through the whole thing. The permanency of this means I go back to this a week/month later.
I did hear Craig from the Canada team asking if there was a dvd of the Team event available afterwards (we laughed at him as this was only after round 2 of 6 max tables lol) and it may be a good idea but how do you edit into a watchable dvd? I think this is impractical.
Having played a few APAT events with the Live Feed I find it"s a bit of a novelty for a while (mates texting u etc) but if I had to choose one or the other it would have to be live updates.
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Having missed the Aberdeen tournament, and watching the live feed, it was nearly as good as being there. I personally like this "live" feeling of watching the action. This new addition has to be better than sitting in front of a laptop pressing F5 every few minutes to see if anything has happened. With the live feed, plus the updates, you have two portals to catch up with.
I would not want to cast my vote on losing one or the other, greedy me would like both to continue.
Thought Tikay did a splendid job last night on the final table, with Simon taking over as the stooge instead of Richard Orford.. The banter was good, the hand guessing- excellant, interviews- not sure, but all in all super coverage, apart from the break in streaming
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Love the live feed. More please
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Live Feed is great and even tho I was playing, I missed listening to it at times. I have enjoyed the witty banter of Rich and Leigh so much in the past that I found myself trying to get close enough to them in DTD to hear what I was missing. When sitting within 20 feet, I was trying to lip-read.
Live Feeds are well worth an investment. I think it would be great if that investment was larger as it would allow us to cover more tables / cover the best of the action on tables quicker but, as I don"t know what"s currently being spent and how much it dents the prizepool ... On the other hand, I also think that cutting it back would be a good option, back to Final Day / on the Bubble / Final Table coverage, giving us the best of both - great live updates on the Forum for the masses and well-deserved "TV" coverage for the most successful. Record it, edit it, publish it on the main page / making it available to download for a week would be great! I don"t know if what we"d save would cover possible increase Bandwidth charges ... ? And / or YouTube it.
I jokingly suggested "APAT Radio" to Des and Rich as we left last night. I would definitely have liked to have listened to radio coverage on the 5 hour journey home. That"s maybe a question to ask Carl / Shogun112 ... is there an App for that ... ?
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There is a valid point that should not be missed. The live feed gives the opportunity to showcase the sponsor and the event to viewers and potential new members whose attention you will only ever have for a very short period of time. They would never read the live update thread. That adds value for the sponsor, and in turn adds value to the events.
Agreed Des.
What else could you provide with the same money?
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I watched some of the coverage on Thursday and Friday. The picture quality isn"t great, I couldn"t make out any cards on flops or showdown. I thought tighty"s commentary was great because he puts immense effort into describing the flop etc but others were less descriptive and so harder to follow. Also over time I found myself ignoring the picture and getting on with other stuff whilst just listening to the sound. So for me the picture became irrelevant.
Sometimes the feed froze and often in interviews I could hear the questions but not the answers because the mic wasn"t close enough to the interviewees mouth. Frustrating.
I was to vote one way or the other I"d ditch the live feed as I really like the live updates as a record of the event as many others have said above. Our permanent memory now is more like he"s out she"s out GL to X Y Z can you give me a chip count how do you end a horse tournament bla bla. No jokes no anecdotes hardly any hand history; I really miss those.
+1 to Stuart"s OP.
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For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be. On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k ;)
Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews
If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both
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For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be. On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k ;)
Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews
If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both
bye bye bankroll
hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite............
:D
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The live feed was awesome. Loads of my lads and family were glued to PC for from Saturday to Monday and due to the quality of the coverage it has made all of them want to play in the Online League and attend future live events in the future.
I got that many texts when we got interviewed it broke my sim card, honestly. Sim card fried.
I watched the coverage for the Omaha game and it was spot on, it kept freezing but thats standard UK internet.
All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.
Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.
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For what audience is it aimed for? If it's for the regular APAT player then the live updates are best for reasons already given. With me reaching the FT, it would be good to have a record of the events; yes they are some but not like it used to be. On the other hand, Fran (wife) for the first time watched me play, she had no idea what was happening but it kept her glued to the laptop. If this was just on the live updates she would have not followed the action. The upside to that would have been she would have not known that I had won 4k ;)
Forward
Live updates day 1
Live feed/updates day 2
With exception to the worlds when it should be all 5 days
The quality needs to improve (keeps freezing, sound quality)
Possibly a recording of the final table and interviews
If I had to pick one then it would be live updates but if we can improve on the live feed (see above) then both
bye bye bankroll
hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite............
:D
hello holiday, new car, shopping trip, 3piece suite - with £4k? Can tell Stuart"s a scott ;D
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All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.
Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.
If only it were that easy. Unfortunately, with the amount of poker on TV these days, people have very high expectations for a video production.
They want multiple player cameras, overhead cams, hole cams, on-screen graphics and commentary...oh, and across multiple tables too. At least I do...and that"s a quality product you can actually sell.
I don"t think anyone is going to argue that the live feed is a great addition, the debate that is..erm...raging, is that the live feed which has to be handled by Leigh, Tighty and Des..and anyone else who they can grab, is leaving no room for the quality forum updates that were the norm before.
In the past, you got the hand breakdowns on the forum and they covered multiple tables at the same time. With the current staffing (i.e. resources to use a buzzword) this is not possible.
If APAT could find 10/20 people willing to work long hours running around like headless chickens taking notes and running them back to the updating team they would STILL have a problem in that those people have to be able to report accurately, know the players names etc. etc. It"s a tough skillset to find.
Oh...and they"d have to do it for pretty much nothing to boot.
Anyone feel they want to give up playing a National and give the live updates a shot? I hang my head in shame and say "no" every time.
What"s the solution....I don"t know, seriously, I don"t know. Somewhere in the middle I guess.
Hold on folks, it"ll be interesting. ;D
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Haven"t been an APAT"r long enough to really comment, but would just like to say that having worked along side these guys at the weekend, its dammed hard work. I was shattered and was updating for a lot less hours then they were.
I personally love both updates via the forum and the camera, but to do both efficiently, more help is definitely needed.
Great job to those involved, but think you will have to use your charm to attract some more "cheap" helpers.....lol
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Surely the answer is a simple one.
Des, Tighty and Leigh sign up for...
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40279000/gif/_40279681_human_cloning3_inf416.gif)
Problem solved 8)
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My opinion...
I would like to see BOTH... The video feed and the text based live updates.. The reason being that there are great reasons for both which have already been identified so I will not elaborate... But...
- I would have someone doing the text based live updates and dedicated to doing that so that there is a consistency of that service.
- I would keep the video service, but, I think it would benefit massively if broadcast through a service like UStream or something very similar. UStream can be free of charge, but pay a service fee or PAYG fee, then there are some huge advantages, and, could really be done by still using the same production team as already employed... For instance...
- No need for APAT to have own web server for video...
- A Recording service of up to 500 gig per month (more if u want it)...
- On screen graphics...
- Lots of multi cam features..
- Chat live to the viewers...
- Viewer polls...
- Send auto updates to Twitter, Facebook etc...
- UStream have mobile apps for iPhone, Android and Nokia to allow more viewers...
- Embed in your own site...
- Audio only for them long distance events where there is no video team...
- And lots more.....
Its a great service, if you have a webcam in you laptop, go try it now, its simple, broadcast yourself to the world.
In my opinion, without fully investigating properly, the people who have mentioned that the video service often freezes and pauses, loses whatever, are correct, I have sat here and watched it for myself, and, I think it is down to the casino"s internet service. Most casinos have what is in effect a broadband type service. APAT hits that casino with video broadcast equipment and 4 or 5 laptops and whatever else, and it really hammers their upload. Video is running fine, someone uploads a load of photos, video suffers. APAT dont have the ability to segment bandwidth of a casino and neither should they. Rigth now, I dont see a fix to that, certainly UStream or a similar service will not fix that aside of producing the video on dedicated bandwidth.
Anyways, thats my twopenneth..
Carl.
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Anyways, thats my twopenneth..
Twopenneth ::)
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Nice idea Phil.
Just to put a bit of this discussion in perspective, we"ve run the live feed at four events so far.
Swansea - It was totally new to us, also a new venue, just Tighty and I for most of it.
The Vic - Fully manned, and updates were good, imo.
Aberdeen - New venue, tough weekend, only myself and Tighty available.
DTD - The WCOAP, 2 events every day, 3 on Friday, Minimum of 20 tables occupied, maximum of 40ish. Even without the live stream, we had out hands full to update everything to a standard we would like.
I"m not making excuses, and we are grateful to everyone that have helped at those events.
Personally, I think that we can do both formats justice, with a little more planning and getting a bit more support around the update team, then it is definitely achievable.
We racked up over 80 hours at DTD during the five daysm which, with hindsight, might not have been the best idea in the world, but I loved every minute of it (Even those points when I was ready smash someone over the head with my laptop). ;D
Dublin is updates only. Seems a bit boring really. ;)
We"ll have the full APAT tv back on the road for Luton and Coventry. Whether you think it"s a good idea or not, if you can"t make it there, I"m sure you"ll tune in at some point. ;)
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I would have someone doing the text based live updates and dedicated to doing that so that there is a consistency of that service.
The problem is, Carl, that one person cannot do a live update....you need, at the very least, two. One to be at the table and one to type.
Ideally, what you have is person typing with a team, perhaps 3 or 4 strong, running between tables trying to make notes on the action/cards/players names/chipstacks and then haring back to the update table with their info.
It"s a lot to gather and then transmit and, as has been mentioned, tough to find personnel with the necessary abilities.
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We"ll have the full APAT tv back on the road for Luton and Coventry. Whether you think it"s a good idea or not, if you can"t make it there, I"m sure you"ll tune in at some point. ;)
I shall endeavour to be at one or both these events to help out, Leigh. I might even be able to talk Amanda into it as well... :D
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The Live update feed was great for family etc watching and absorbing the atmosphere etc of the event. They have in the past tried to follow what was going on through the updates but found them difficult to really follow/understand as non poker players and criticised the way they would often go off on a tangent.
The combination of the live feed and in this case the dtd excellent website giving finishing positions seat draw etc gets a huge thumbs up from them.
The live feed gets a huge vote for me if i had to choose one over the other
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All you need to produce a DVD or videos to be uploaded onto youtube is a volunteer and a camcorder.
These lads do tooooooo much IMO and do a fantastic job if there is only a few of them sorting out 450+ people and organising an event like that. I new to APAT so thats just what i observed.
Example - When a person gets eliminated from whatever tourney and then they go and see Leigh, "Pass the camcorder and i will get some footage for 5 mins".
Edit it alltogether.
Stick it on a DVD.
Pass the completed DVD back to the APAT Hierarchy and they sell it for a £10er.(That would pay for a better live stream perhaps)
I would buy a DVD.
Then 6 months after the DVD has been released, stick it on youtube for the world to see.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy
I would be happy to do any of the above as it would defo bring another dimention to the event and bring a few quid into APAT and improve an already immpressive event.
If only it were that easy. Unfortunately, with the amount of poker on TV these days, people have very high expectations for a video production.
They want multiple player cameras, overhead cams, hole cams, on-screen graphics and commentary...oh, and across multiple tables too. At least I do...and that"s a quality product you can actually sell.
I don"t think anyone is going to argue that the live feed is a great addition, the debate that is..erm...raging, is that the live feed which has to be handled by Leigh, Tighty and Des..and anyone else who they can grab, is leaving no room for the quality forum updates that were the norm before.
In the past, you got the hand breakdowns on the forum and they covered multiple tables at the same time. With the current staffing (i.e. resources to use a buzzword) this is not possible.
If APAT could find 10/20 people willing to work long hours running around like headless chickens taking notes and running them back to the updating team they would STILL have a problem in that those people have to be able to report accurately, know the players names etc. etc. It"s a tough skillset to find.
Oh...and they"d have to do it for pretty much nothing to boot.
Anyone feel they want to give up playing a National and give the live updates a shot? I hang my head in shame and say "no" every time.
What"s the solution....I don"t know, seriously, I don"t know. Somewhere in the middle I guess.
Hold on folks, it"ll be interesting. ;D
Key Word - volunteers.
I have the software on my pc and can easy knock out a DVD of a poker game with commentary and graphics worth a £10er in a few days if i had enough footage.
Im happy to help in the future.
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I have the software on my pc and can easy knock out a DVD of a poker game with commentary and graphics worth a £10er in a few days if i had enough footage.
Im happy to help in the future.
Of course....most of us do...but that"s not the issue under discussion.
The issue, at least it appears to me, is not the quality of the video feed....it"s the quality of the forum updates.
People are complaining that they liked the way the updates were before and want them back. Yes, a DVD would sort of substitute but that"s not what they are asking for. The answer is, quite simply, as Des and Richard have said, a resources one....find the right people, willing and able to do it...at the right price.
Ian and Amanda worked very hard at DTD to cover what they could and should be applauded for their efforts...we need more like them.
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I like the idea of text updates (like a twitter type thing) where people can text in their own updates.
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I like the idea of text updates (like a twitter type thing) where people can text in their own updates.
Do you like bad beat stories then ;D think we would be getting a lot of them ;)
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I think there have been some great ideas here, if people were to "text" "twitter" and whatever else to a communal address this would bulk out the updates and less leg work for running round and getting chip counts etc, in fact I would most certainly volunteer to help and co-ordinate with updates if I cannot make the tournaments as more often than not I am sat in front of the pc except when I sleep :)
One more suggestion, if you are going to do something along these lines, it would be useful to have some sort of "idiot card" on the tables with details of how people can send in their updates if they want to. Pointless offering all this if people dont know where to send to :)
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I think there have been some great ideas here, if people were to "text" "twitter" and whatever else to a communal address this would bulk out the updates and less leg work for running round and getting chip counts etc, in fact I would most certainly volunteer to help and co-ordinate with updates if I cannot make the tournaments as more often than not I am sat in front of the pc except when I sleep :)
One more suggestion, if you are going to do something along these lines, it would be useful to have some sort of "idiot card" on the tables with details of how people can send in their updates if they want to. Pointless offering all this if people dont know where to send to :)
So many people have phones that can browse the internet, that they can just add to the live updates themselves. I know people already do that.
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I think there have been some great ideas here, if people were to "text" "twitter" and whatever else to a communal address this would bulk out the updates and less leg work for running round and getting chip counts etc, in fact I would most certainly volunteer to help and co-ordinate with updates if I cannot make the tournaments as more often than not I am sat in front of the pc except when I sleep :)
One more suggestion, if you are going to do something along these lines, it would be useful to have some sort of "idiot card" on the tables with details of how people can send in their updates if they want to. Pointless offering all this if people dont know where to send to :)
So many people have phones that can browse the internet, that they can just add to the live updates themselves. I know people already do that.
Except me, I have a tendency to delete live update threads from my phone ;) LOL
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I think there have been some great ideas here, if people were to "text" "twitter" and whatever else to a communal address this would bulk out the updates and less leg work for running round and getting chip counts etc, in fact I would most certainly volunteer to help and co-ordinate with updates if I cannot make the tournaments as more often than not I am sat in front of the pc except when I sleep :)
One more suggestion, if you are going to do something along these lines, it would be useful to have some sort of "idiot card" on the tables with details of how people can send in their updates if they want to. Pointless offering all this if people dont know where to send to :)
So many people have phones that can browse the internet, that they can just add to the live updates themselves. I know people already do that.
Except me, I have a tendency to delete live update threads from my phone ;) LOL
Mods banned from using this method of update, methinks... lol
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Text updates FTW
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I think there have been some great ideas here, if people were to "text" "twitter" and whatever else to a communal address this would bulk out the updates and less leg work for running round and getting chip counts etc, in fact I would most certainly volunteer to help and co-ordinate with updates if I cannot make the tournaments as more often than not I am sat in front of the pc except when I sleep :)
One more suggestion, if you are going to do something along these lines, it would be useful to have some sort of "idiot card" on the tables with details of how people can send in their updates if they want to. Pointless offering all this if people dont know where to send to :)
So many people have phones that can browse the internet, that they can just add to the live updates themselves. I know people already do that.
Except me, I have a tendency to delete live update threads from my phone ;) LOL
Mods banned from using this method of update, methinks... lol
I had thought of a solution to that problem...create another a/c just xxMairxx-Phone lol