Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: TheSnapper on November 08, 2010, 19:44:43 PM

Title: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 08, 2010, 19:44:43 PM
I"ve been constantly abusing the other two, min raising preflop every button playing 46/32. Just recently villain has started to ship ai his 60 BB"s in response and has clearly had enough. Not to be detered ( LAG is fun  ;D) .......

No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com)

(http://www.flopturnriver.com/poker-table-pictures/1232144.gif) (http://www.flopturnriver.com/Poker-Hand-5dTd-Tournament-SB-1232144.php)

Hero (SB) (t9835)
BB (t11290)
Button (t5875)

Hero"s M: 32.78

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif), 10(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif)
1 fold, Hero bets t500, BB calls t400

Flop: (t1200) 7(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif), 5(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/club.gif), J(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/heart.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: (t1200) 8(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t1800, Hero calls t1800

River: (t4800) J(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/spade.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t8865

Hero ????




Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: mousebob on November 08, 2010, 21:37:29 PM
Have you a question?  ???
Call or Fold?  ???
I fold  ::)
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 08, 2010, 22:24:17 PM

Have you a question?  ???
Call or Fold?  ???
I fold  ::)


Edited, yes river call or fold but comments welcome on all streets.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: SirPercival on November 08, 2010, 22:54:20 PM
I have no idea what you should do because I am a fish but I have to say I love your presentation.




p.s. fold
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: bigredders on November 09, 2010, 00:12:53 AM
I would fold but it is more than plausable that you are ahead here. The problem is you haven"t really gathered any info on the strength of his hand. Would have preferred a raise or even a ship on the turn as i think he is betting because you have shown weakness. Hence the more than pot-size bet.

I would fold on the basis that you can run over them to get the chips back.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: Dewi_cool on November 09, 2010, 02:17:28 AM
ship on the turn & call here, his all in looks weak, would he not value bet the river if his hand was that strong?
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: Marty719 on November 09, 2010, 07:42:34 AM
I fold without more info here.  Has villain any history of overbet bluffing?


ship on the turn & call here, his all in looks weak, would he not value bet the river if his hand was that strong?


A value bet does not necessarilly mean a small bet.  A value bet is the largest amount that you believe ur opponent could call with a worse hand.  In this spot, his line looks pretty fos, so he can value bigger than average.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 09, 2010, 11:57:17 AM



A value bet does not necessarilly mean a small bet.  A value bet is the largest amount that you believe ur opponent could call with a worse hand.  In this spot, his line looks pretty fos, so he can value bigger than average.


Funny you should post that comment Marty, I"ve been thinking about posting our headsup hand at DTD but didn"t really remember enough detail to post correctly.

I"ll leave this a little longer, c"mon guys get some comments in there, flame, abuse, its the interweb for goodness sake.


Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: Marty719 on November 09, 2010, 13:33:36 PM
I thought about that hand as soon as I read this!!  Cnt remember the details now either but it would have been a good hand to post!!
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 09, 2010, 14:46:35 PM

I thought about that hand as soon as I read this!!  Cnt remember the details now either but it would have been a good hand to post!!


Yea its a very similar spot, but with at least one key! difference.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 09, 2010, 15:04:46 PM



ship on the turn & call here, his all in looks weak, would he not value bet the river if his hand was that strong?



I assume and hope you mean check raise ai on the turn Dewi, Leading the turn for $9k into $1200 would obviously be a long term losing bet.

I suspected lots of players would suggest the turn check raise ai, we have lots of equity against villains range. The problem is, our equity comes mostly from the portion of that range that folds to a turn shove. You could make a case for betting ai to take down the pot, it is quite big already @ ~30% of our stack.



Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: WYoung83 on November 09, 2010, 19:08:05 PM
 As played i check call river an expect him to mostly have air. Hes gonna check behind pairs including 7 or 8, cant put him on a jack.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: LongshanksED on November 09, 2010, 20:14:46 PM
Even with Bottom pair im leading out on the flop to see where I am, if I"m raised I can muck it

As played I"m at least leading the turn but again not looking to get much action

On river what are we beating? Any J, 7, 8 even some 5s beat you. Any over pair 66+ or any gapped connecters like 64, 69 or 9 10!

Snap fold
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: Swinebag on November 09, 2010, 20:27:06 PM
pretty much like the way you played it. You call turn I assume to call the river but the shove is a serious overbet and is for your tourney.

Given that you are abusing successfully, there is no need to stack off with this hand so fold river, even though there is a pretty good chance you are ahead here.

For a sit and go the stacks are pretty deep 3 handed so I"d fold and carry on abusing in the next hand.

what are the payouts? these may mean that calling is correct here (need some noble maths here!!)
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: AJDUK on November 09, 2010, 20:46:01 PM
Since you set the scene as an aggressor I don"t really understand the way you played it :-\

Flop check fine for me. I would have def done something on the turn that didn"t involve check calling though. I"d rather bet and be called than check call, but I wouldn"t shove. If you bet the turn and get called you have taken the lead and may then be able to check down the river if you miss since you have showdown value (and so might he). Plus you could win it there and then by betting the turn. If he then shoves the river I fold, it"s bottom pair and I think after he called the turn he has you beat more often than not, and some of these times will be when HE thinks he"s got the worst hand.

As played insta-fold and post on a forum somewhere if I coulda played it different ;) I can"t make a case for calling because some of his bluffs will have you beat.
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 09, 2010, 21:51:48 PM

I"ve been constantly abusing the other two, min raising preflop every button playing 46/32. Just recently villain has started to ship ai his 60 BB"s in response and has clearly had enough. Not to be detered ( LAG is fun  ;D) .......

Hero (SB) (t9835)
BB (t11290)
Button (t5875)

Hero"s M: 32.78

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif), 10(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif)
1 fold, Hero bets t500, BB calls t400

I"ve been playing with BB for over an hour and have a good handle on him, he"s clearly had enough and is likely to do just about anything at this stage, I want to play pots with him even oop. I raise planning to fold to a reraise. He flat calls rather than 3 bet ai ( his method for playing back ) and that pretty much rules out the top 25% from his range with very few exceptions. You can get an odd suprise here but seldom enough to be trivial.

Flop: (t1200) 7(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif), 5(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/club.gif), J(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/heart.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

A nice flop given our recent history but not much value in a bet, he is more likely to raise or fold and we"ll likely have to fold to a raise. I think weak check calling has more value for our hand.

Turn: (t1200) 8(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t1800, Hero calls t1800

Obviously some nice insurance now with the flush draw and no way I"m folding on this street. There isn"t much value in a bet though, he is still more likely to raise or fold and we"ll like to keep the folding hands involved.The overbet is weak and not how I"d expect him to bet with 78 or 58, don"t think he ever checks back a J on the flop. I suspect our hand is good so no need to tell him.

River: (t4800) J(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/spade.gif) (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t8865

The big overbet on the river is so FOS, you often see the nuts bet like this but its usually a rivered nuts and in a small pot were villain maybe feels the potsize needs to justify his handsize. I"ve often panic snap folded here in the past but I"ve been working on taking time to look beyond the shock effect and taking a composed look at the decision at hand. If anything the river J was a great card for me really, he never ever has the J and so its a scare card for any of his hands that beat me.

I make the hero or total mug call and villain shows.......

6s :3s:

Ship the $19.5k pot.






Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: shozboy1 on November 16, 2010, 23:52:49 PM
i"m pretty much always cbetting the flop here, and 50/50 between checking and 2nd barrelling the turn. Insta river fold for me as played
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on November 17, 2010, 09:00:13 AM
Very well played Brendan, I like to think I would have played that in a similar fashion, but who knows!
Title: Re: Down to 3 in 18 man SnG on Stars
Post by: TheSnapper on November 17, 2010, 14:57:58 PM



Very well played Brendan, I like to think I would have played that in a similar fashion, but who knows!



Thanks Mikey, I thought this post was dead and gone.



i"m pretty much always cbetting the flop here, and 50/50 between checking and 2nd barrelling the turn. Insta river fold for me as played

 

apologies Shoz, hadn"t seen this reply....

As always, there really is no perfect answer / line in this hand. I played it based on my reads and decisions were made predominately from the position, how can I get him to put $$ in with a hand that I beat?

That said, I"m curious, when you say "i"m pretty much always cbetting the flop here",