Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: Eck on December 02, 2007, 21:19:12 PM

Title: Chat Abuse
Post by: Eck on December 02, 2007, 21:19:12 PM
Would just like to say that these games are beginning to lose any attractiveness with the increasing amount of abuse and "expert" advice that seems to be thrown around in the chat box.

[edited to remove comment that may impact on a future event]
Title: Chat Abuse
Post by: APAT on December 02, 2007, 21:53:43 PM
I agree with you Eck and will review the chat logs with Blue Square and if rules have been broken then the rule breaker(s) will be banned from APAT with immediate effect.
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: KingPoker on December 03, 2007, 22:29:10 PM
It is sad, luckily in the ones i play in banter seems to be the at the forefront but there are some mouthy gob****es everywhere.

Would love to know what the removed comment was though.....

Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Foggy on December 04, 2007, 18:10:48 PM
I would tend to agree.

Even at the final table of the online on Sunday, usual good humoured banter from a cast of regulars and element of pizz taking, but someone seemed to take it a stage too far in his opinions.
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: APAT on December 04, 2007, 18:39:19 PM
Yes, that is what we are talking about Chris.  I could not intervene on Sunday for numerous reasons, but I am not happy with the smartalec railer who started commenting on one or two plays. I"m sure he did not break any chat rules but it was definitely not in the spirit of APAT.  
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Maxriddles on December 06, 2007, 01:04:50 AM
Don"t know about anyone else but I don"t mind the abusive chatters too much as I am happy that they are probably pretty pitiful individuals using the chat box as an outlet to deal with their ow.n issues and help them feel big and clever (sometimes hard to resist the temptation to wind them up though). The one thing I notice about these players is that you see them most often in the early stages, I wonder why that could be.
As for railers that"s a different matter but the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. It may be an idea for sites to withdraw the use of chat for anyone after 5 minutes have passed following their exit from a tournament. 
Don"t know if there is too much we can do if site chat rules are not broken. I agree that it isn"t in the spirit of APAT and offenders should be banned from APAT but I don"t think this could be done for the current online format. Lets hope these idiots behave themselves tonight. GL all, especially me.
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Philippos13 on December 06, 2007, 01:46:23 AM
hi, i dont know if i should be posting this here but i was wondering what are the rules on speech play (live) for the apat events since different venues usually have different rules. More specificly i would like to know if your hand is declared dead if you orally reveal any of your cards.... i ve heard that this is the general rule in america yet in my local cardroom that rule does not apply, that is you can say i have got aces and actually have them...

i would be intrested to know what the actual apat rule says...

thank you
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 06, 2007, 10:13:08 AM
I think the general rule in many places in the UK is that you can lie about your hand, but you can"t actually declare the hand you"re holding.

But as there are aren"t standardised rules, the rule will differ according to where you play.  Not sure what the APAT rule is (or the Grosvenor rule for that matter) on this one though.

Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: MrArrows on December 06, 2007, 16:49:06 PM

hi, i dont know if i should be posting this here but i was wondering what are the rules on speech play (live) for the apat events since different venues usually have different rules. More specificly i would like to know if your hand is declared dead if you orally reveal any of your cards.... i ve heard that this is the general rule in america yet in my local cardroom that rule does not apply, that is you can say i have got aces and actually have them...

i would be intrested to know what the actual apat rule says...

thank you


i had a problem with this in a tourney , i was told i couldnt tell the truth, so now when i have aces i say " i dont have ace of diamond and ace of heart" for example im lying because i do have them :-)
lol
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Jon MW on December 06, 2007, 16:53:35 PM
If you tell somebody you have aces, what are you trying to achieve?
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: TightEnd on December 06, 2007, 17:21:00 PM
APAT Rule 57

Verbal declarations as to the content of a player's hand are not binding; however at the Tournament Director's discretion, any player deliberately declaring or miscalling his hand may be penalised.
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Philippos13 on December 06, 2007, 18:05:19 PM
thats not clear at all though... so by "declaring or miscalling" does it mean you cannot either lie or tell the truth?
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 06, 2007, 18:14:36 PM

thats not clear at all though... so by "declaring or miscalling" does it mean you cannot either lie or tell the truth?



Sounds like it"s saying that if you deliberately declare your hand you might be penalised - which sort of half covers what we were talking about.

The bit about deliberately miscalling your hand sounds like you can"t lie about your hand either, unless it refers to the showdown and you miscalling your hand before showing it in the hope that the other player mucks theirs and you take the pot down (with the inferior hand)?

It"s not too clear is it?
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: TightEnd on December 06, 2007, 23:30:09 PM

thats not clear at all though... so by "declaring or miscalling" does it mean you cannot either lie or tell the truth?




if you do either you are at risk of being penalised
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Philippos13 on December 06, 2007, 23:56:49 PM
that seems wrong....liying about your hand and getting penalised
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Swinebag on December 07, 2007, 09:15:28 AM

that seems wrong....liying about your hand and getting penalised


My take on this is:

If you ask someone what they have because you want a read then they have the right to lie/tell the truth/do whatever they want. You did after all start the mind games

If you are thinking/tanking about a decision and they then start lying/telling the truth/whatever about their cards then this is out of order and should be penalised.

The devil is in the detail here, to quote tighty




APAT Rule 57

Verbal declarations as to the content of a player?s hand are not binding; however at the Tournament Director?s discretion, any player deliberately declaring or miscalling his hand may be penalised.


So by being asked what you have and then replying, you are not deliberately declaring your hand
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 07, 2007, 10:56:00 AM
...and yet within the APAT rules I"m sure it allows you to expose your cards when facing an all-in bet and you"re the only one to act (a rule I completely disagree with).

Surely this is a case of "deliberately declaring" your hand?  Don"t these two rules contradict each other?
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: TightEnd on December 07, 2007, 10:59:40 AM
One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: TightEnd on December 07, 2007, 11:01:39 AM
One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 07, 2007, 11:14:11 AM

One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events



One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events


Is it that one is verbal and the other rule isn"t?

Are you considering changing the other rule for future events?

;D
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: TightEnd on December 07, 2007, 11:47:03 AM
Yes

Yes

and once more Yes


No need to multiple post Mr fishi, sir
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 07, 2007, 11:51:39 AM
Is that a yes then?
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Philippos13 on December 07, 2007, 12:20:05 PM
Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: Swinebag on December 07, 2007, 12:35:14 PM

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...


Is this chat abuse? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 07, 2007, 13:19:22 PM


Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...


Is this chat abuse? ;D ;D ;D


LOL - I"ve been called worse!
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: kinboshi on December 07, 2007, 13:52:53 PM

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...


There are a number of reasons I think it"s wrong.

One, is the reason you stated.  You turn your cards over and someone comments that you"ve lost one of the cards you"re drawing to as they held a particular card, or that if they"d called they"d hit the  whatever. 

It"s also the same as declaring your hand.  You"re trying to get a read off the player (and other players who are no longer in the hand).  A player might even do it to get the other player to reveal his hand before the showdown - and therefore making his hand dead as you"re still to act.  It"s angle-shooting.

I saw a televised event, not sure which one, and Gus Hansen showed his cards to a player sitting next to him in exactly this situation.  the TD stepped in and said his cards were dead.  I thought this was fair.
Title: Re: Chat Abuse
Post by: texfitz on December 11, 2007, 13:25:58 PM
forgive me for interupting this thread but what"s it all about ?

you CAN declare your holdings
you CAN"T declare your holdings
you CAN lie about your holdings
you CAN"T lie about your holdings
you CAN/CANNOT tell the truth if asked

what is the initial purpose of this game ?  To get all the chips in play

the clock is ticking -  LET YOUR CHIPS DO THE TALKING