Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: pokerpops on March 24, 2011, 13:50:43 PM

Title: QQ Heads Up
Post by: pokerpops on March 24, 2011, 13:50:43 PM
heads up in the 3euro rb on 888

Villain has played the FT very tight, 18/9/19
I"m a little looser at 22/15/28

Button  - Villain 406,284
Me - BB 455716

Blinds 10,000/20,000

Villain raises to 40,000
I reraise to 80,000 with  qd qc

he flat calls

Flop  ad kh :2d:

???????????

also - should i just be jamming pre? I"d obviously be happy to get it all in here
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: Marty719 on March 24, 2011, 13:58:26 PM
Jamming pre would be pretty bad without history.  With QQ, we do not want to be maximising f/e pre.  Obv the bad point of working our 3b sizing to keep most of his range in, is sometimes we will flop pretty bad.  Do you have ftcb stats for villain?  If he had been playing pretty straight forward, I prob c/b very small and fold to a jam.  Due to the fact that this flop hits so much of our 3b range, we can afford to cb smaller and not give up too much f/e.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: TheSnapper on March 24, 2011, 14:19:33 PM



Villain has played the FT very tight, 18/9/19
I"m a little looser at 22/15/28



I presume these stats are Vpip / Pfr / Agg%

if so replace agg% with Af, its much more useful.

Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: pokerpops on March 24, 2011, 14:33:43 PM

Jamming pre would be pretty bad without history.  With QQ, we do not want to be maximising f/e pre.  Obv the bad point of working our 3b sizing to keep most of his range in, is sometimes we will flop pretty bad.  Do you have ftcb stats for villain?  If he had been playing pretty straight forward, I prob c/b very small and fold to a jam.  Due to the fact that this flop hits so much of our 3b range, we can afford to cb smaller and not give up too much f/e.


Limited info on specific situations - only seen him face c/bets in three 3-bet pots, he folded 2...

He"d folded his blinds pretty easily, but again it"s a smallish sample
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: deanp27 on March 24, 2011, 17:35:27 PM
Probably just check and give up, can"t see him folding ax or kx here to a single bet
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: WYoung83 on March 24, 2011, 18:40:38 PM
 I think checking is too exploitable for him. If you bet he may just fold a lot of his range anyway. i would just c bet smallish and fold if he raises. If he calls our c bet, then there are quite a few cards to give us some back doors anyway. If the turn bricks, then check fold.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: AMRN on March 24, 2011, 18:45:35 PM
small c-bet once, and if he doesn"t fold, give up
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: Marty719 on March 24, 2011, 20:13:40 PM
I think our c/b can be v small btw, like 67,750.  It does increase his f/e which sucks, but it hits our 3b range so hard tht we can get away with it.

Obv we give up if villain does anything...
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: deanp27 on March 24, 2011, 21:45:28 PM
if villain is very tight i can"t see us getting exploited here. Don"t like giving any more chips away in a HU spot - even betting 70k is an effective 140k swing HU
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: pokerpops on March 25, 2011, 10:29:42 AM
Thanks - I cbet half-pot (I think now that was probably too much), he raised, I folded

he typed A2

I need to improve my HU skills - I finished 2nd yesterday as well despite having a 2:1 lead when we got HU
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: Marty719 on March 25, 2011, 10:40:50 AM

Thanks - I cbet half-pot (I think now that was probably too much), he raised, I folded

he typed A2

I need to improve my HU skills - I finished 2nd yesterday as well despite having a 2:1 lead when we got HU


Don"t worry about results over a short sample.  It is pretty meaningless.  If you want to improve, just play a load of small HU sngs.  Experiment with different bet-sizing, and adjusting to your opponents.  The training sites have a lot of really good material on HU play, esp BlueFirePoker.  BlueFire and Deuces Cracked both have free trials as well.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: pokerpops on March 25, 2011, 10:51:06 AM


Thanks - I cbet half-pot (I think now that was probably too much), he raised, I folded

he typed A2

I need to improve my HU skills - I finished 2nd yesterday as well despite having a 2:1 lead when we got HU


Don"t worry about results over a short sample.  It is pretty meaningless.  If you want to improve, just play a load of small HU sngs.  Experiment with different bet-sizing, and adjusting to your opponents.  The training sites have a lot of really good material on HU play, esp BlueFirePoker.  BlueFire and Deuces Cracked both have free trials as well.


Thanks for the suggested sites.

I don"t get to HU often enough to develop a BIG sample  >:(


Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: WYoung83 on March 25, 2011, 12:32:41 PM
To much variance in such a small sample to worry about. Somtimes its worth taking a few shots when you are 4 handed (bubble) in sngs because people play tight, and getting the extra chips makes hu easier.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: LongshanksED on March 25, 2011, 19:45:27 PM
I"m making it around 160-170k here pre based solely on stack sizes. I do want him to call and I don"t  at the same time as in OOP. The raise should mean he can only jam or fold and you want to. If he flats your raise I"m jamming any flop that doesn"t contain an ace

Your min re raise is letting him have the odds to call with virtually any 2 cards in position but the larger reraise is putting a larger percentage of his chips in. After his 20k raise his chips are at 366k and if you take it her your stack goes up to 500k giving you a much larger stack to his.


Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: mousebob on March 25, 2011, 20:54:36 PM

I"m making it around 160-170k here pre based solely on stack sizes.






+1 & I"m hoping to get it all in pre.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: deanp27 on March 25, 2011, 21:19:36 PM
i agree 80k maybe slightly small but making it 160k+ will not make him jam, it will make him fold and IMO is not good. Should definitely be no more than 120k and i would probably make it about 100k personally
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: LongshanksED on March 25, 2011, 21:45:30 PM
why is getting him to fold a bad thing

yes, we are hoping he jams but how confident are we if an ace hits when he flats our min re raise and with stack sizes can we make him fold thinking we have a better ace?


get him to fold here we have an 500k stack vs his 340k stack - and with an average of 21BB each thats a big advantage to have
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: deanp27 on March 25, 2011, 22:44:27 PM

why is getting him to fold a bad thing



results orientated thinking perhaps now you have seen the flop? - we have queens and we are heads up with 20bbs - our hand is HUGE - the flop will not always come AKx - i think the answer to your question is obvious, not really sure what else to say. When we raise/bet we want to be called by worse (for value) or get better hands to fold (bluffing) - with queens heads up we should be making a raise that maximises our expectation from the hand and trying to blast our opponents weaker ranges (such as A2 for example) out of the pot pre does not maximise our expectation.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: Marty719 on March 25, 2011, 23:01:34 PM


why is getting him to fold a bad thing



results orientated thinking perhaps now you have seen the flop? - we have queens and we are heads up with 20bbs - our hand is HUGE - the flop will not always come AKx - i think the answer to your question is obvious, not really sure what else to say. When we raise/bet we want to be called by worse (for value) or get better hands to fold (bluffing) - with queens heads up we should be making a raise that maximises our expectation from the hand and trying to blast our opponents weaker ranges (such as A2 for example) out of the pot pre does not maximise our expectation.


+1 to all this. We cn 3b a lot smaller pre w/ these stack sizes as the spr will be so low and manageable that we cn get stacks in regardless.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: treydj on April 19, 2011, 15:59:25 PM
i reraise more preflop.
Agreed, hand is massive HU. But we are OOP.
I"d prefer to take down the 70000 and keep momentum.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: Marty719 on April 19, 2011, 16:41:45 PM

i reraise more preflop.
Agreed, hand is massive HU. But we are OOP.
I"d prefer to take down the 70000 and keep momentum.


Being oop doesnt matter as much with such a small spr.  We have QQ HU.  Wanting to tid pre would be lunacy.
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: deanp27 on April 19, 2011, 17:03:30 PM
I"d prefer to win his stack and ship the comp
Title: Re: QQ Heads Up
Post by: treydj on April 19, 2011, 17:08:30 PM
I have been called a lunatic on many occasions! :o

guess we all have different approaches for each hand - that"s what makes poker .....poker.

I just prefer to raise more and take a smaller pot, and be prepared to felt pre if he re-raises.

But hey, that"s just my opinion.

for what"s its worth!! LOL