Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: AceOnTheRiver on November 18, 2012, 22:16:50 PM
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I know this is an oft debated subject but I wanted to start a discussion around "team play" or "soft play" in the MTT element of the Home Internationals ahead of the event itself.
In my opinion the team element takes precedent over anything else and as such certian things which may be perceived as soft play, should be accepted.
For example, when teammates get Heads Up in a pot, then in my opinion no more chips should go into the pot - I just don"t see the point. When there"s a third player involved then it"s business as usual, with no collusion between teammate, which to me should never be allowed or encouraged.
As another example, if a teammate shoves on your BB, when under normal circumstances you would be "priced in" I think you should fold as you either cap your teammate"s points at this stage therefore damaging the team"s overall score or you make a dent in your own stack.
Sometimes the above may be seen as a chip pass but surely if a bigger stack goes, call, call, call, fold then this is more of a chip pass and should not be allowed.
I raise these points now because I want people to see where I"m coming from and encourage debate before the event so that we all go into the tournament with a clear view.
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Poker is not really a team game IMO
So when a team format is introduced then certain rules that are strictly enforced in normal games should be "relaxed"
I think collusion pretty much goes on anyway and as long as it isn"t discussed at the table during a hand then it"s fine.
Typical examples are the example JP gave, plus also raising to fold to a team mates 3 bet no matter the cards/odds. These may not look good, but that"s team poker IMO
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Poker is not really a team game IMO
So when a team format is introduced then certain rules that are strictly enforced in normal games should be "relaxed"
I think collusion pretty much goes on anyway and as long as it isn"t discussed at the table during a hand then it"s fine.
Typical examples are the example JP gave, plus also raising to fold to a team mates 3 bet no matter the cards/odds. These may not look good, but that"s team poker IMO
We had this in the online team comp., and as I"ve mentioned previously, it bought the game into disrepute IMHO.
We had 2 players still in, and they had 3, 1 is the short stack and the 2 largest stacks, and obv., this could arise again in Stoke.
On their short stacks BB, their first player makes a big raise and player 2 calls. We both have to pass and the BB shoves. The other 2 players then fold. This allowed the short stack to get right back in the game and completely changed the way the game panned out.
I think we have no choice but to allow this as there is no real way to stop it.
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Poker is not really a team game IMO
So when a team format is introduced then certain rules that are strictly enforced in normal games should be "relaxed"
I think collusion pretty much goes on anyway and as long as it isn"t discussed at the table during a hand then it"s fine.
Typical examples are the example JP gave, plus also raising to fold to a team mates 3 bet no matter the cards/odds. These may not look good, but that"s team poker IMO
We had this in the online team comp., and as I"ve mentioned previously, it bought the game into disrepute IMHO.
Totally different though Rich, there is a large individual element to the National League the Home Nations is entirely a team game. There is no personal advantage to knocking out a team mate. I think soft play within the teams should be fine.
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Yep, National league is not a good example due to the individual element. The incident you described rich is OOL in the NL, but would be fine in the home internationals
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I guess this is the annual thread to discuss the merits of team poker - it generally appears on the forum at least once a year.
Soft play, chip dumping, etc, are all part of this strange team game concept - team poker is about carrying as many players as deep as possible. There"s no point getting upset when it happens, or debating it"s legality or the morality of it... rather we should all accept it, embrace it, and learn to do it better than the other teams.
What really frustrates me though is when a player open raises, his shortstacked team mate shoves, and the opening player then timebanks before folding to try and make it look like there"s a decision to be made..... everyone knows what"s happening, there"s no need to try and disguise it.
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Poker is not really a team game IMO
So when a team format is introduced then certain rules that are strictly enforced in normal games should be "relaxed"
I think collusion pretty much goes on anyway and as long as it isn"t discussed at the table during a hand then it"s fine.
Typical examples are the example JP gave, plus also raising to fold to a team mates 3 bet no matter the cards/odds. These may not look good, but that"s team poker IMO
We had this in the online team comp., and as I"ve mentioned previously, it bought the game into disrepute IMHO.
Totally different though Rich, there is a large individual element to the National League the Home Nations is entirely a team game. There is no personal advantage to knocking out a team mate. I think soft play within the teams should be fine.
Rich is talking about the online cup, not the league, where there was no individual element, it was all team. He"s got the situation slightly wrong in the positionings (it was big stacks on button and SB, small stack BB so his team had no chance to interject on the "action") but the situation did arise when his team did just that - BB was short stack, UTG and UTG +1 both limped (same team) presumably to fold on BB shove. Knowing they were limping light I made a big raise and took down the blinds and the limps. What I"m saying is if you know what"s happening you can take advantage, providing the seat positions are in your favour.
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..........What I"m saying is if you know what"s happening you can take advantage......
Spot on
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..........What I"m saying is if you know what"s happening you can take advantage......
Spot on
Sigh.. There goes my move!!.. 100% correct Matt
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Poker is not really a team game IMO
So when a team format is introduced then certain rules that are strictly enforced in normal games should be "relaxed"
I think collusion pretty much goes on anyway and as long as it isn"t discussed at the table during a hand then it"s fine.
Typical examples are the example JP gave, plus also raising to fold to a team mates 3 bet no matter the cards/odds. These may not look good, but that"s team poker IMO
We had this in the online team comp., and as I"ve mentioned previously, it bought the game into disrepute IMHO.
Totally different though Rich, there is a large individual element to the National League the Home Nations is entirely a team game. There is no personal advantage to knocking out a team mate. I think soft play within the teams should be fine.
Rich is talking about the online cup, not the league, where there was no individual element, it was all team. He"s got the situation slightly wrong in the positionings (it was big stacks on button and SB, small stack BB so his team had no chance to interject on the "action") but the situation did arise when his team did just that - BB was short stack, UTG and UTG +1 both limped (same team) presumably to fold on BB shove. Knowing they were limping light I made a big raise and took down the blinds and the limps. What I"m saying is if you know what"s happening you can take advantage, providing the seat positions are in your favour.
Matt is quite correct and we obv., had too do the same thing, but hated doing so. Just have to accept this as part of the game and enjoy it. The bar is always open ;D
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This will only affect the MTT yes? Is this still massively weighted in comparison to the SnG"s?
I will be actively encouraging my team to put the team first, but then I trust they are all sensible enough to realise this for themselves and make the right choices.
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This will only affect the MTT yes? Is this still massively weighted in comparison to the SnG"s?
I will be actively encouraging my team to put the team first, but then I trust they are all sensible enough to realise this for themselves and make the right choices.
I"m sure that they will follow your lead, "Captain of C"
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Forgot to mention in my application that i have a history of knocking out my team mates :) i called dons all in last year cos i had qq and in a moment of stupidity said "call" so stupid things can happen, although probably only when i"m involved. ;D
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This will only affect the MTT yes? Is this still massively weighted in comparison to the SnG"s?
I will be actively encouraging my team to put the team first, but then I trust they are all sensible enough to realise this for themselves and make the right choices.
I"m sure that they will follow your lead, "Captain of C"
As long as he"s heading towards the bar...I"m right behind him.
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If it comes to this scrap the team games imo.
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Forgot to mention in my application that i have a history of knocking out my team mates :) i called dons all in last year cos i had qq and in a moment of stupidity said "call" so stupid things can happen, although probably only when i"m involved. ;D
I remember it well!
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think this answers all questions you have on team play
The prizepool will be paid out as follows :-
1st - £1500 + APAT Gold Medals
2nd - £1000 + APAT Silver Medals
3rd - £500 + APAT Bronze Medals
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At the end of the day it"s not poker it"s TEAM poker. Different game, different dynamics, different rules imho. ::)