Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: mporter123 on February 24, 2014, 18:05:32 PM
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PokerStars Hand #112275119022: Tournament #866160397, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (125/250) - 2014/02/23 14:48:27 WET [2014/02/23 9:48:27 ET]
Table "866160397 52" 8-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Mark_Port157 (9187 in chips)
Seat 2: lanciafan (10932 in chips)
Seat 3: pewpewvich (5372 in chips)
Seat 4: TilThou$e (4971 in chips)
Seat 5: gyuszi7823 (6441 in chips)
Seat 6: erfurter18 (1191 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 7: mmppoker (17178 in chips)
Seat 8: ImNWPO93 (20406 in chips)
Mark_Port157: posts the ante 30
lanciafan: posts the ante 30
pewpewvich: posts the ante 30
TilThou$e: posts the ante 30
gyuszi7823: posts the ante 30
erfurter18: posts the ante 30
mmppoker: posts the ante 30
ImNWPO93: posts the ante 30
mmppoker: posts small blind 125
ImNWPO93: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mark_Port157 [ 10c 10s]
Mark_Port157: raises 250 to 500
lanciafan: folds
pewpewvich: folds
TilThou$e: folds
gyuszi7823: folds
erfurter18: folds
mmppoker: calls 375
ImNWPO93: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qh 3c 4h]
mmppoker: bets 750
Mark_Port157: calls 750
*** TURN *** [Qh 3c 4h] [4c]
mmppoker: checks
Mark_Port157: bets 1305
mmppoker: calls 1305
*** RIVER *** [Qh 3c 4h 4c] [4d]
mmppoker: bets 5500
Mark_Port157:
Villain is a huge whale. Rofling about playing 42/19 over 60 hands. OPR shows him as new to poker. Been doing all manner of weird and wonderful things. Has ran a couple of weird bluffs, I couldn"t remember sizing though. Seems very unlikely to ever fold a pair. A lunatic who is clearly loving the game - active in chat.
We have been warring a fair bit, my image is pretty snug though in comparison.
I think flop and turn are very standard. Bets pot on the river though... enough heart draws and lower houses to hero or fold?
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Has he been raising plenty when mediocre showdown?
Seems a pretty big shift from check-calling turn to donking river. You"d think if he was slowplaying (which could include a Q in his mind) he"d check raise the turn - there"s no real difference in hand strength for a made hand which makes the gear change very suspicious.
So there"s enough draws and doubt in my mind to cross my fingers and call (outside of any ICM considerations).
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He has donked all three streets.
He had seemed to slow down some what by the time it gets to the river in most pots previously. No ICM considerations needed - think it was about 50 spots off the money.
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He has donked all three streets.
He c/c the turn.
I probably call off vs a player of this type and make a note
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He has donked all three streets.
He c/c the turn.
I probably call off vs a player of this type and make a note
Ha, oops.
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PokerStars Hand #112346549721: Tournament #870518353, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (700/1400) - 2014/02/24 20:17:07 WET [2014/02/24 15:17:07 ET]
Table "870518353 23" 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ivan-s@n (37320 in chips)
Seat 3: occlusion86 (24254 in chips)
Seat 4: wes345 (49856 in chips)
Seat 5: 2MuchSk1LL (64221 in chips)
Seat 6: Johnnie Fart (77299 in chips)
Seat 7: Rafa_COSTABR (19435 in chips)
Seat 8: PapaBear0258 (51026 in chips)
Seat 9: Mark_Port157 (87625 in chips)
ivan-s@n: posts the ante 175
occlusion86: posts the ante 175
wes345: posts the ante 175
2MuchSk1LL: posts the ante 175
Johnnie Fart: posts the ante 175
Rafa_COSTABR: posts the ante 175
PapaBear0258: posts the ante 175
Mark_Port157: posts the ante 175
ivan-s@n: posts small blind 700
occlusion86: posts big blind 1400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mark_Port157 [7c As]
wes345: folds
2MuchSk1LL: folds
Johnnie Fart: folds
Rafa_COSTABR: folds
PapaBear0258: raises 1400 to 2800
Mark_Port157: raises 3095 to 5895
ivan-s@n: folds
occlusion86: folds
PapaBear0258: calls 3095
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s Qd]
PapaBear0258: checks
Mark_Port157: bets 6885
PapaBear0258: calls 6885
*** TURN *** [8d 7s Qd] [3h]
PapaBear0258: bets 2800
Mark_Port157: calls 2800
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s Qd 3h] [4d]
PapaBear0258: bets 4200
Mark_Port157: raises 5815 to 10015
PapaBear0258: calls 5815
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Mark_Port157: shows [7c As] (a pair of Sevens)
PapaBear0258: shows [8c Jc] (a pair of Eights)
PapaBear0258 collected 54690 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 54690 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7s Qd 3h 4d]
Seat 1: ivan-s@n (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: occlusion86 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: wes345 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 5: 2MuchSk1LL folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 6: Johnnie Fart folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 7: Rafa_COSTABR folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 8: PapaBear0258 showed [8c Jc] and won (54690) with a pair of Eights
Seat 9: Mark_Port157 (button) showed [7c As] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Someone tell me I"m the worst.
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PokerStars Hand #112346549721: Tournament #870518353, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (700/1400) - 2014/02/24 20:17:07 WET [2014/02/24 15:17:07 ET]
Table "870518353 23" 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: ivan-s@n (37320 in chips)
Seat 3: occlusion86 (24254 in chips)
Seat 4: wes345 (49856 in chips)
Seat 5: 2MuchSk1LL (64221 in chips)
Seat 6: Johnnie Fart (77299 in chips)
Seat 7: Rafa_COSTABR (19435 in chips)
Seat 8: PapaBear0258 (51026 in chips)
Seat 9: Mark_Port157 (87625 in chips)
ivan-s@n: posts the ante 175
occlusion86: posts the ante 175
wes345: posts the ante 175
2MuchSk1LL: posts the ante 175
Johnnie Fart: posts the ante 175
Rafa_COSTABR: posts the ante 175
PapaBear0258: posts the ante 175
Mark_Port157: posts the ante 175
ivan-s@n: posts small blind 700
occlusion86: posts big blind 1400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mark_Port157 [7c As]
wes345: folds
2MuchSk1LL: folds
Johnnie Fart: folds
Rafa_COSTABR: folds
PapaBear0258: raises 1400 to 2800
Mark_Port157: raises 3095 to 5895
ivan-s@n: folds
occlusion86: folds
PapaBear0258: calls 3095
*** FLOP *** [8d 7s Qd]
PapaBear0258: checks
Mark_Port157: bets 6885
PapaBear0258: calls 6885
*** TURN *** [8d 7s Qd] [3h]
PapaBear0258: bets 2800
Mark_Port157: calls 2800
*** RIVER *** [8d 7s Qd 3h] [4d]
PapaBear0258: bets 4200
Mark_Port157: raises 5815 to 10015
PapaBear0258: calls 5815
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Mark_Port157: shows [7c As] (a pair of Sevens)
PapaBear0258: shows [8c Jc] (a pair of Eights)
PapaBear0258 collected 54690 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 54690 | Rake 0
Board [8d 7s Qd 3h 4d]
Seat 1: ivan-s@n (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: occlusion86 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: wes345 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 5: 2MuchSk1LL folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 6: Johnnie Fart folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 7: Rafa_COSTABR folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 8: PapaBear0258 showed [8c Jc] and won (54690) with a pair of Eights
Seat 9: Mark_Port157 (button) showed [7c As] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Someone tell me I"m the worst.
Errrrrr.....
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Was river for value?
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Was river for value?
:)
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
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Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
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Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
Have you been speaking to Perry?
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
I"d have struggled to fold a pair getting about 8-1 on the river. If you are gonna bluff a fish you have really got to make it stick and probably should bluff raise the turn bet rather than the really small raise on the river.
But preflop is so unnecessary with what is a terrible hand, but I guess you know this.
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
I"d have struggled to fold a pair getting about 8-1 on the river. If you are gonna bluff a fish you have really got to make it stick and probably should bluff raise the turn bet rather than the really small raise on the river.
But preflop is so unnecessary with what is a terrible hand, but I guess you know this.
Oh, I think pre is ok.. seems like a decent hand to have as a 3bet bluff, blockers... will have position when called. . It all goes wrong from flop onwards, not 3balling random aces like this that often though.
Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
Have you been speaking to Perry?
I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
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Using a HH converter for these makes it so much easier to analyse.
Is it just me that finds multiple hands per thread very confusing?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 700/1,400 Blinds 175 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com
saw flop | saw showdown
SB (t37,320)
BB (t24,254)
UTG (t49,856)
UTG+1 (t64,221)
MP1 (t77,299)
MP2 (t19,435)
CO (t51,026)
Hero (Button) (t87,625)
Hero"s M: 25.04
Preflop: Hero is Button with A(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/spade.gif), 7(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/club.gif)
4 folds, CO raises to t2,800, Hero raises to t5,895, 2 folds, CO calls t3,095
Flop: (t15,290) 8(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif), 7(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/spade.gif), Q(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif) (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets t6,885, CO calls t6,885
Turn: (t29,060) 3(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/heart.gif) (2 players)
CO bets t2,800, Hero calls t2,800
River: (t34,660) 4(http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerforum/images/smilies/diamond.gif) (2 players)
CO bets t4,200, Hero raises to t10,015, CO calls t5,815
Total pot: t54,690
Hand 1: I call river but probably check back turn, is turn bet for value? Also, I suspect you need to be more diligent with note taking. To even categorise as Loose passive - Tight aggressive can be a big help.
Hand 2: Turn flat to villains weak "where am I" bet is like a green light to these types. On a positive note, you have to be putting yourself in these spots to improve your postflop game.
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Very happy value betting that turn. I think that, given player type, lower pocket pairs are not folding, can value bet lots of rivers too albeit thinly.. Also helps protect my hand against broadway combos on the turn.
Hand 2 is just a car crash. Raise turn jam river maybe!
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all poker players DO NOT play an unexploitable strategy, THE COUNTER STRATEGY isn"t to try bluffing unexploitably, the decision tree for this is about a billion billion......
u exploit for a greater profit by playing a non-optimal exploitable counterstrategy but for that u need to know the strategy a player is using to determine the appropriate counterstrategy? plus what if your opponent/s change there strategy?
so are $4 mtts the best place to get a good idea of one single opponents frequencies and habits?
imho in mtts u can play a solid type style, a high variance try to win chips style so u can bluff a bit more lol to gain or lose later or a mixture of both strategies...
the hand above [2nd one] is ok"ish until the the river imo, quote - His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
so the river re-raise sizing is way to small imho.... and remember to embrace and accept that things will go tits up when u are trying to use a high variance try to win chips style [lag or maniac whatver u want to call it].. :)
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Very happy value betting that turn. I think that, given player type, lower pocket pairs are not folding, can value bet lots of rivers too albeit thinly.. Also helps protect my hand against broadway combos on the turn.
My impression is that 3b pots tend to play out more straightforwardly postflop, you really think there are 3 streets of value here with bottom pair.
I understand that 99-JJ will peel the flop here but I would defo expect all broadway hands other than Qx and flush draws to check fold the flop, even in the hands of this obvious station.
Maybe this being a value line explains the very small sizing but we really should be trying to bluff versus villains extremely weak turn donk, there are ~23bb"s in the pot at that stage.
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all poker players DO NOT play an unexploitable strategy, THE COUNTER STRATEGY isn"t to try bluffing unexploitably, the decision tree for this is about a billion billion......
Wouldn"t worry about that, that was just an in-joke ;)
Can"t add to what already has been said. Hand 2 is FPS in the wrong tournament without reads as you. It"s not a terrible idea as Brendan says, and I agree with Dean in that I prefer raising turn and can"t expect a fold on the river.
Whilst I like the blocker and the equity aspect of 3b bluffing with Ax, I do prefer a wheel kicker and suited.
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I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
:D :D :D
Nut response. Wd Sir.
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I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
:D :D :D
Nut response. Wd Sir.
^ +1 He is worth every penny :)
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
I"d have struggled to fold a pair getting about 8-1 on the river. If you are gonna bluff a fish you have really got to make it stick and probably should bluff raise the turn bet rather than the really small raise on the river.
But preflop is so unnecessary with what is a terrible hand, but I guess you know this.
Oh, I think pre is ok.. seems like a decent hand to have as a 3bet bluff, blockers... will have position when called. . It all goes wrong from flop onwards, not 3balling random aces like this that often though.
Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
Have you been speaking to Perry?
I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
Perry"s 10 point guide to bluffing unexploitably
Lesson 1 -Always be out of position
Lesson 2 - If you do find yourself in position, take your thinking level, deduct 1, continue to think at this level for the remainder of the hand.
Lesson 3 - If your not already all in, your not trying hard enough.
Lesson 4 - Always wear a jaunty hat, even when playing online.
Lesson 5 - It never hurts to start a bluff by putting the chips in and then winking at your opponent.
Lesson 6 - If you make double reverse floating your standard line, it is no longer considered FPS.
Lesson 7 - If people say you suffer from FPS, you have probably out grown them as poker players.
Lesson 8 - By not looking at your cards, no-one can pick-up any physical tells, so never look, even at the board. In fact, just keep your eyes closed.
Lesson 9 - Never tell the truth about your hand, even if you have somehow found yourself in the unfortunate position having your cards face up. Just keep insisting that a mistake has occurred either with the establishment or the software.
Lesson 10 - On the rare occasion that one of your immense bluffs get picked off, grip your cards tightly and refuse to show them to anyone. Remember, all publicity is good publicity.
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
I"d have struggled to fold a pair getting about 8-1 on the river. If you are gonna bluff a fish you have really got to make it stick and probably should bluff raise the turn bet rather than the really small raise on the river.
But preflop is so unnecessary with what is a terrible hand, but I guess you know this.
Oh, I think pre is ok.. seems like a decent hand to have as a 3bet bluff, blockers... will have position when called. . It all goes wrong from flop onwards, not 3balling random aces like this that often though.
Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
Have you been speaking to Perry?
I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
Perry"s 10 point guide to bluffing unexploitably
Lesson 1 -Always be out of position
Lesson 2 - If you do find yourself in position, take your thinking level, deduct 1, continue to think at this level for the remainder of the hand.
Lesson 3 - If your not already all in, your not trying hard enough.
Lesson 4 - Always wear a jaunty hat, even when playing online.
Lesson 5 - It never hurts to start a bluff by putting the chips in and then winking at your opponent.
Lesson 6 - If you make double reverse floating your standard line, it is no longer considered FPS.
Lesson 7 - If people say you suffer from FPS, you have probably out grown them as poker players.
Lesson 8 - By not looking at your cards, no-one can pick-up any physical tells, so never look, even at the board. In fact, just keep your eyes closed.
Lesson 9 - Never tell the truth about your hand, even if you have somehow found yourself in the unfortunate position having your cards face up. Just keep insisting that a mistake has occurred either with the establishment or the software.
Lesson 10 - On the rare occasion that one of your immense bluffs get picked off, grip your cards tightly and refuse to show them to anyone. Remember, all publicity is good publicity.
Deserves own thread.
I"m looking forward to Vegas :)
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I assume his two small turn and river bets are to try and control the pot size. Did you deem these to be block bets at the time?
His hand just looked a lot like what it was - a one pair hand trying to get to showdown.
I would play some diamond flush draws like that on the turn. I wouldn"t want to raise fold them and raise - get it in might be a bit thin so would call relatively often then raise river when the flush hits.
I don"t think the line is ridiculous, a tad spewy though. I thought he would struggle to call with a queen, let alone an 8. Turns out he was a fish and didn"t fold any pairs ever. I probably shouldn"t have done this when he had been at the table about 3 hands and I was readless.
I"d have struggled to fold a pair getting about 8-1 on the river. If you are gonna bluff a fish you have really got to make it stick and probably should bluff raise the turn bet rather than the really small raise on the river.
But preflop is so unnecessary with what is a terrible hand, but I guess you know this.
Oh, I think pre is ok.. seems like a decent hand to have as a 3bet bluff, blockers... will have position when called. . It all goes wrong from flop onwards, not 3balling random aces like this that often though.
Errrrrr.....
I post these hands so I am not accused of being a huge nit any more! I do play some hands well - honest.
Send more money, k thanks bye.
Have you been speaking to Perry?
I have hired Perry as my new poker/life coach. At the moment we are working on bluffing unexploitably..
Perry"s 10 point guide to bluffing unexploitably
Lesson 1 -Always be out of position
Lesson 2 - If you do find yourself in position, take your thinking level, deduct 1, continue to think at this level for the remainder of the hand.
Lesson 3 - If your not already all in, your not trying hard enough.
Lesson 4 - Always wear a jaunty hat, even when playing online.
Lesson 5 - It never hurts to start a bluff by putting the chips in and then winking at your opponent.
Lesson 6 - If you make double reverse floating your standard line, it is no longer considered FPS.
Lesson 7 - If people say you suffer from FPS, you have probably out grown them as poker players.
Lesson 8 - By not looking at your cards, no-one can pick-up any physical tells, so never look, even at the board. In fact, just keep your eyes closed.
Lesson 9 - Never tell the truth about your hand, even if you have somehow found yourself in the unfortunate position having your cards face up. Just keep insisting that a mistake has occurred either with the establishment or the software.
Lesson 10 - On the rare occasion that one of your immense bluffs get picked off, grip your cards tightly and refuse to show them to anyone. Remember, all publicity is good publicity.
6 is utter genius. Love it
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No. 6 is now on my white board above PC