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We wish to build on the success of the UK Team Championship and hopefully this year not have to disappoint as many teams - to do that we need to increase the capacity.
This means a split of Day 1 which would see 4 members from each team compete on Friday evening (circa 1900/2000) and play around 9 levels (7 hours play) and the remaining 4 compete on Saturday (circa 1500) obviously to play around 9 levels (7 hours play) also.
Day 2 would then have all those remaining come back to commence on Sunday at 1200 noon and play to a completion as usual.
The venue has not yet been confirmed, but probably north of London and south of Manchester!
We would welcome thoughts on the above.
Cheers/Tom
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Love the idea of getting as many teams as possible in however personally don"t like the split team scenario. For events like these teams like to imo travel together, play together, drink together. Can"t you have 2 flights, but all teams in same day. If that means people from same team more chance to be on same table then so be it. Once tables break you have that chance anyway.
Seems a logistical issue for traveling teams
All always many thanks for always thinking of improvements.
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Hi Tom & APAT
Newcastle Poker have entered a team in every team event that has ever been organised by APAT BUT by splitting the event into day1A and day1B but also splitting your team up where members are playing different days is IN MY OPINION one of the worse decisions you could make.
While I understand the organisational problems and trying to satisfy all concerned as Ive organised many events like this it will ruin the event from an atmospshere point of view and sometimes additional numbers a split day may create will be lost by the enjoyment that a big majority will lose
MY VIEW IS NO SPLIT DAY in order to maintain the demand that this event achieves
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I don"t think this is ideal for this event. This is a personal viewpoint would be interested to see other points of view though as it might not be reflective of the entire community.
My logic here is that it is the event that probably is most responsible for drawing people into APAT (it certainly was in my case). The team element means that you do not turn up to an event and know nobody at all, you will at least have some people you are familar with in your team even if it is the first time you have met them.
A large part of this event for me is meeting up on the Friday night and having a few beers and a laugh with your team without having to worry about the poker*.
This allows new players to see the social side of APAT and meet some of the characters you see at all the events. I am not exactly objective here but having visited a few other tours (Sky, Pokerplayer for example) the APAT community is the strongest out there I have seen. It is true to say that you can meet these people at the table but I don"t think this is the same at all. Some teams are made up from forums where people don"t always know each other that well and the time to get to know each other enhances the experince and the event itself, I believe it makes it more likely these players will looks to play future APAT events. This improves the event also as people rail their team mates and you make new poker friends which is very useful. By starting an event on Friday night you remove an element of the community aspect from the weekend which feels like it could be a mistake?
My feeling, the event works very well as it is.
*It is worth noting that there are a number of us who see every event like this to a certain extent and are a minority who will turn up to every event anyway so should not be the main focus on who events should please.
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Let me say that I"m liking the fact that APAT are constantly seeking to improve and innovate... but there are a few drawbacks to this idea IMHO...
i) It means that at least half the team, if not all, are paying for two nights in a hotel rather than the usual one.
ii) The 3am - 4am finish might be a strain for those who have already spent much of the day travelling.
iii) Half the team could find themselves at a loose end for the second day
iv) If all four of a team"s players were to bust out of flight 1, it kind of ruins it for the four in flight 2.
I could go on, and of course there are counter arguments to all of the above, but as "teamdobb" says above, making this a two-flight tourney will destroy the brilliant atmosphere of these events.
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I pretty much agree with all of the posts above.
TBH there are just too many negative points to this option for it to work successfully.
Also agree that to keep the interest at a peak for the years ahead, demand exceeding supply is the best policy.
p.s. Obviously we will completely change this opinion if we dont get a spot in the event ;)
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I rate this tournament above all tournaments. By splitting it into 2 day one"s it will destroy the tournament for all the reasons already stated.
As an alternative could we have 2 semi finals (North/south) with say top 8 teams going to a final later in the year.
Increase the teams to 10, The semi"s could run as a 1 day event, prize money could be paid out on the day or carried forward to the final.
But don"t make a £50 game in to a 3 day event
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Think splitting a "Team" up into 2 separate flights kinda detracts from the ethos slightly as stated above..
Is there a venue that could accommodate more teams?
What about having 6 players per team?
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Really dislike this idea for all the reasons mentioned.
The team champs is all about the banter and being there as a team. Thats what keeps people coming back year after year.
Would we not be able to start with a few self dealt tables?
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Not a good idea IMO! I understand you want to let more people to play, but make it split between 2 day ones will spoil the whole idea of the team game atmosphere! Obv only my opinion but really think you should stick to 1 day one if possible! :)
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For reasons already stated, I have to add my voice to the no campaign on this one.
Half the Friday field will have to rush there - or teams will have regular players missing because of it being on a week day.
The Saturday atmosphere will be ruined as half the teams will have had bad Fridays and their Saturday players will start level one knowing they have no team prize to aim for.
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As an alternative could we have 2 semi finals (North/south) with say top 8 teams going to a final later in the year.
I like this idea. Maybe whoever enters picks a squad of 6/8 players and any four can play. Gives some flexibility in having to field two teams at different times of the year. That way if a team does get through to the second event there is no "surprise" additions to the team.
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Love the idea of adding another Day 1 to accommodate all the teams that want to play this, and potentially second or third teams form some of the clubs/groups/forums.
Not keen on each team being split across the two day 1"s though, would much prefer that everyone from a team plays the same Day 1 and those that make it through consolidate together for the final day.
It would only need 10-15 of the teams happy to play on the Friday night (and have a more social Saturday) for it to work numbers wise.
The Day 1"s don"t need to run with the same numbers.
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not a great idea , to be honest, you seem to be missing the whole bonding experience, a team that plays together stays together, you will kill a great event in my humble opinion
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organisors need to ask themselves WHY this event is always oversubscribed and it isnt because teams want to be seperated and play on different days or flights!!! To change will kill the event imo
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organisors need to ask themselves WHY this event is always oversubscribed and it isnt because teams want to be seperated and play on different days or flights!!!
This
Plus, who gets to decide which players have to take at least an afternoon off work AND pay for an extra nights hotel?
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Team splitting not a good idea. The team element has always been a big part of teams I have participated in and it"s not really a team event if you only play with half of your team. Also if u played the second flight and the first 4 people had all busted the night before motivation would be different.
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would like all players from team playing at one time, although having day 1a and 1b would add an extra twist to it, with more teams playing swells the prize fund too
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Two days clearly isn"t popular, go for the bigger capacity.
If DTD can"t host, how about Star City or Genting Stoke, both central venues that have hosted 300 player tourneys in the past.
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Personally, I think to do the event justice, the buyin should be £50+£10 per person. It amazes me that any venue is still prepared to run a two day deepstack event with just £5 per person juice.
To get to the capacities we are talking about, any venue in the UK will need to bring in dealers (which costs a bit more than their inhouse dealers). I"d imagine it"s a hard sell when speaking to venues.
Sorry if that"s slightly off topic, and those are my own opinions, which may well differ from Des and Tom's views.
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If we have 3 days, can we not just run it as a 3 day comp? Change it to £60+£10 pp (so the casino gets the juice needed to make it viable) and have
Day 1 (7pm-1am no breaks)
Day 2 as norm
Day 3 as norm?
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Personally, I think to do the event justice, the buyin should be £50+£10 per person. It amazes me that any venue is still prepared to run a two day deepstack event with just £5 per person juice.
To get to the capacities we are talking about, any venue in the UK will need to bring in dealers (which costs a bit more than their inhouse dealers). I"d imagine it"s a hard sell when speaking to venues.
Sorry if that"s slightly off topic, and those are my own opinions, which may well differ from Des and Tom's views.
Unless it started with a few self dealt tables....
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Personally, I think to do the event justice, the buyin should be £50+£10 per person. It amazes me that any venue is still prepared to run a two day deepstack event with just £5 per person juice.
To get to the capacities we are talking about, any venue in the UK will need to bring in dealers (which costs a bit more than their inhouse dealers). I"d imagine it"s a hard sell when speaking to venues.
Sorry if that"s slightly off topic, and those are my own opinions, which may well differ from Des and Tom's views.
Unless it started with a few self dealt tables....
APAT wouldn"t run a main event with self dealt tables Kev, at least not by design.
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Personally, I think to do the event justice, the buyin should be £50+£10 per person. It amazes me that any venue is still prepared to run a two day deepstack event with just £5 per person juice.
To get to the capacities we are talking about, any venue in the UK will need to bring in dealers (which costs a bit more than their inhouse dealers). I"d imagine it"s a hard sell when speaking to venues.
Sorry if that"s slightly off topic, and those are my own opinions, which may well differ from Des and Tom's views.
Unless it started with a few self dealt tables....
APAT wouldn"t run a main event with self dealt tables Kev, at least not by design.
Im sure members would rather that then splitting the team event
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In response to Chipaccruals reply of charging extra juice to cover the venues " extra costs" . I would 100% guarantee that bar takings alone at this event would prove very profitable for the host venue!!!
Venues should be paying APAT a nice chunky fee to host this event
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If we have 3 days, can we not just run it as a 3 day comp? Change it to £60+£10 pp (so the casino gets the juice needed to make it viable) and have
Day 1 (7pm-1am no breaks)
Day 2 as norm
Day 3 as norm?
surely all players would need to get same game time, maybe whoever left from day 1a joins 1b at a later stage on saturday, maybe after dinner break or something
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Kudos to APAT for trying move forward and break new ground again........ love the idea of expanding this event to accommodate more teams....... BUT, please don"t split teams across sessions as proposed. I agree with all of the reasons posted already.
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I"m with Carl on this one. If the objective is to involve more teams (fair enough since the event is heavily over-subscribed) then reducing teams to 6 players per team makes more sense to me than having an additional day and two flights.
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The problem APAT will have if reducing to 6 players per team will be that even more teams will apply. This event is the one APAT event that could theoretically get >300 runners easily (apart from the Worlds obv) and as such, should be held in a venue that can hold that capacity.
My simple suggestion would be to hold the event as part of a festival - APAT always hold their festivals in the larger capacity venues so more teams would get in.
I definitely dont like the idea of splitting it into two day 1s for the reasons already posted.
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The problem APAT will have if reducing to 6 players per team will be that even more teams will apply. This event is the one APAT event that could theoretically get >300 runners easily (apart from the Worlds obv) and as such, should be held in a venue that can hold that capacity.
My simple suggestion would be to hold the event as part of a festival - APAT always hold their festivals in the larger capacity venues so more teams would get in.
I definitely dont like the idea of splitting it into two day 1s for the reasons already posted.
There may well be more applications, not sure this is a massive problem though? The target is to get more teams into the event and therefore more new players, reducing the number to six would accomplish this.
What festival could it be attached too? The only one in the UK is WCOAP usually?
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The problem APAT will have if reducing to 6 players per team will be that even more teams will apply. This event is the one APAT event that could theoretically get >300 runners easily (apart from the Worlds obv) and as such, should be held in a venue that can hold that capacity.
Perhaps both my suggestions then.. Reduce teams to 6 and hold it in a venue that can hold 300 runners 50 teams of 6..
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You"ve got to be really careful in reducing the size of the teams, as it potentially could result in the individual winner of the event effectively winning it for their team.
Ideally, I"d like to see teams back at 10 people, with everyone getting a team in. Makes the winning team needing to get 2/3 of their team deep in the event to win it.
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I dont like the idea of this really.
I can see WHY you might do it, but the whole idea of the team event is to play it as a TEAM, and splitting the teams up just wont be the same IMO.
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Agree with the majority sentiment that splitting teams to play over multiple days goes against what most people feel this even should be about, so definitely wouldn"t want to see that.
If sufficient capacity cannot be found to host all/most of the teams who want to enter, what about teams having to qualify online in some way? I know this means that some teams would still be excluded from the live event (as they are now), but at least every single team which wanted to enter would have a shot. How you wanted to structure this could vary, either straight satellites yielding the required number of team spots, or some format (league or otherwise) whereby stacks can be carried through, or even redistributed amongst team members to some limited extent (maybe averaged?), you get the idea.
Alternatively, rather than splitting teams across two Day 1"s, what about splitting the field, but keeping teams together? I know this could obviously create some "unfairness" if many of the perceived tougher teams are in one day, but if it"s a random draw, then it is what it is... Would allow capacity to be significantly increased and also keep all team members playing in the same Day 1...
Just my thoughts anyway, whatever happens I know I"d personally be gutted if I wasn"t able to compete in this event, outside of the Worlds, it"s the one APAT I would never want to miss, so I understand wanting to give as many people the opportunity as possible.
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Can there not be a way teams that finish in such a place guarentee their entry into next years tournament with so many spaces left available for an online qualifier?
The qualifier could be for new teams and evens "b" teams with a rule to say that anybody who qualifies in this for example in a "B" team must then play for the team they qualified with ... otherwise it would then be open for abuse for a clubs best players to then try and win a second spot for their club.
Adding in a "relegation" would also keep things interesting for longer as clubs would want to ensure their entry into the following years event rather than have to rely on a qualifier?
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I"ll do a quick re-cap of the comments to date and let you know the general overall feeling regarding splitting Day 1 ;D
That"s that done - a big thank you for all your thoughts - safe to say we won"t be splitting Day 1 ;)
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Just a thought if not already mentioned.
What about 2 flights in the same day; eg 30 teams flight 1. 30 teams flight 2
You could even overlap the flights so the end time isnt too late?
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If we have 3 days, can we not just run it as a 3 day comp? Change it to £60+£10 pp (so the casino gets the juice needed to make it viable) and have
Day 1 (7pm-1am no breaks)
Day 2 as norm
Day 3 as norm?
surely all players would need to get same game time, maybe whoever left from day 1a joins 1b at a later stage on saturday, maybe after dinner break or something
I meant the whole field plays Day 1, stops at 1am them comes back for Day 2
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Sorry for late feedback, but better late than never etc.. Consensus amongst THMF/PokerMob is very similar, we could do the split but would prefer not to. Not only would it change the dynamic, but those playing 2nd flight could be on the back foot straight away if the first players all failed to make any points. Fair play trying to accommodate more players, but you have a brilliant event and it doesn"t need changing imo.
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If we have 3 days, can we not just run it as a 3 day comp? Change it to £60+£10 pp (so the casino gets the juice needed to make it viable) and have
Day 1 (7pm-1am no breaks)
Day 2 as norm
Day 3 as norm?
surely all players would need to get same game time, maybe whoever left from day 1a joins 1b at a later stage on saturday, maybe after dinner break or something
I meant the whole field plays Day 1, stops at 1am them comes back for Day 2
The issue is the number of tables/dealers available restricting the number of teams
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The issue is the number of tables/dealers available restricting the number of teams
This is the heart of the matter. Finding venues that can host, say, 300 runners is pretty hard, especially at the price level that APAT is, rightly, renowned for.
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Just a thought if not already mentioned.
What about 2 flights in the same day; eg 30 teams flight 1. 30 teams flight 2
You could even overlap the flights so the end time isnt too late?
Apologies for late response; I"m definitely against the propsal in the OP & not keen on reducing to 6 man teams either, but i do think this suggestion is workable at the right venue!
How many levels/what is the total time for the current day 1 structure?
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How many levels/what is the total time for the current day 1 structure?
It usually runs to the normal APAT Main Event Structure with around 12/13 levels over 12 hours from 2.30pm on the Saturday.
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Hey guys, again thanks for your feedback - no need to take it further though as we won"t be splitting the event and it will run as per previous years - 15k stack, 45 min clock, all teams/players starting at the same time which I expect to be 14:30 on Sat - hopefully we"ll have all details of the Season 9 tour confirmed this weekend at the latest.
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hopefully we"ll have all details of the Season 9 tour confirmed this weekend at the latest.
(http://thefixisin.net/resources/suspense.jpg)
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Take it back to 10 man teams and drop all the fake communities. Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together and give the best atmosphere for the event.
Trying to please everyone never does anyone any good.
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Take it back to 10 man teams and drop all the fake communities. Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together and give the best atmosphere for the event.
Trying to please everyone never does anyone any good.
A lot of sense in this.
It is without doubt a great event and we all enjoy it, but one of the most disappointing things has been the reluctance of some" teams" that are accepted into the event, to play any other APAT events throughout the year.
I accept that not everyone can play every event but preference has to be given to those who support the tour as a whole, not just once a year, which would hopefully encourage more participation at other events, from those teams.
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Take it back to 10 man teams and drop all the fake communities. Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together and give the best atmosphere for the event.
Trying to please everyone never does anyone any good.
A lot of sense in this.
It is without doubt a great event and we all enjoy it, but one of the most disappointing things has been the reluctance of some" teams" that are accepted into the event, to play any other APAT events throughout the year.
I accept that not everyone can play every event but preference has to be given to those who support the tour as a whole, not just once a year, which would hopefully encourage more participation at other events, from those teams.
^^^
Good post
I agree
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Take it back to 10 man teams and drop all the fake communities. Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together and give the best atmosphere for the event.
Trying to please everyone never does anyone any good.
A lot of sense in this.
It is without doubt a great event and we all enjoy it, but one of the most disappointing things has been the reluctance of some" teams" that are accepted into the event, to play any other APAT events throughout the year.
I accept that not everyone can play every event but preference has to be given to those who support the tour as a whole, not just once a year, which would hopefully encourage more participation at other events, from those teams.
^^^
Good post
I agree
I"d be interested to know what are considered "fake communities" - eg take the UK Team Event in Season 8, or Season 7?
and "Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together" - you mean the teams who turned up to Season 8 event, or Season 7 event etc?
or the one team who had to drop out of Season 8 (and got replaced in plenty of time)?
and advice on how to identify "who will drop out" - ie not be able to string a team together, would be very welcome.
or am I missing the point?
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Let us not forget that one of the primary purposes of the Team event is/was to encourage those forums who haven"t previously experienced an APAT event to come along and find out how awesome it is.
Established forums and groups who have already done so aren"t the target "market" here...we"ve already got them...we"re after more and fresher blood..so to speak.
(http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/images/TrueBlood_Poster.jpg)
This event isn"t a reward for members for supporting APAT throughout the year [ that"s it"s own reward :) ] it"s a promotional event to attract new members. If established teams & groups get in as well, that"s a bonus for them.
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hopefully we"ll have all details of the Season 9 tour confirmed this weekend at the latest.
(http://thefixisin.net/resources/suspense.jpg)
Popcorn purchased.. Over to Des/Tom
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I hope it"s a big bucket
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I hope it"s a big bucket
I"m halfway through mine...I sense a disturbance in the Force. :)
(http://dreamlab7.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/somethings-coming.jpg)
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Take it back to 10 man teams and drop all the fake communities. Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together and give the best atmosphere for the event.
Trying to please everyone never does anyone any good.
A lot of sense in this.
It is without doubt a great event and we all enjoy it, but one of the most disappointing things has been the reluctance of some" teams" that are accepted into the event, to play any other APAT events throughout the year.
I accept that not everyone can play every event but preference has to be given to those who support the tour as a whole, not just once a year, which would hopefully encourage more participation at other events, from those teams.
^^^
Good post
I agree
I"d be interested to know what are considered "fake communities" - eg take the UK Team Event in Season 8, or Season 7?
and "Stick to the reliable teams who can actually string a team together" - you mean the teams who turned up to Season 8 event, or Season 7 event etc?
or the one team who had to drop out of Season 8 (and got replaced in plenty of time)?
and advice on how to identify "who will drop out" - ie not be able to string a team together, would be very welcome.
or am I missing the point?
Having re-thought this I see the point Tom makes and the one Paulie added below. To be fair Des, Tom and everybody at APAT have always said this does need to be established poker communities and have stuck to this when looking at entries. Looking at the team list last year supports this. we all want APAT to succeed and getting new people to the events will help with that, perhaps some will not play other events but some will and that is a good thing.
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Off hand I can"t remember any names but I do know that some people have played APAT events on the strength of playing the Team Event...
I"m yet to play one...hint hint...but anybody who can not be influenced by the APAT experience after playing in the team event obviously never will...