Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: furnesspoker on May 26, 2007, 07:49:15 AM
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I find that the way that tickets are sold for the event to be a bit of a lottery, in fact the last two events I was playing poker live when tickets went on sale so was unable to secure them. I have a couple of suggestions for you to consider.
As the events are a sell out, why not look at 2 venues for each game, For example - if you were to play in Blackpool you could use Stanleys and the Grosevenor and play the final at one of them, this way you could open up the competition to a lot more people and fill the cardroom on the 2nd day. I know logistics of this isn"t always straightforward but could be worth considering.
More Sats. I think it would be much better if there were more seats available via sattelites on Stars, not only does this encourage players to use your sponsors but also opens up the field to players that want to play but may find the cost of the seats a little hard on their wallet.
Ticket Allocations: okay this may sound a bit selfish but as someone who has always had the games best interest at heart I set up our own poker club and all our members joined the Apat, I know there a lot of other like-minded clubs and say for in return for banners on our sites poker clubs have an option to purchase one or two tickets for their players prior to the event.
I hope some of this makes sense and once again congratulations on your new Forum
Regards
Paul Robinson
AKA LuckyBuggah
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I find that the way that tickets are sold for the event to be a bit of a lottery, in fact the last two events I was playing poker live when tickets went on sale so was unable to secure them. I have a couple of suggestions for you to consider.
As the events are a sell out, why not look at 2 venues for each game, For example - if you were to play in Blackpool you could use Stanleys and the Grosevenor and play the final at one of them, this way you could open up the competition to a lot more people and fill the cardroom on the 2nd day. I know logistics of this isn"t always straightforward but could be worth considering.
More Sats. I think it would be much better if there were more seats available via sattelites on Stars, not only does this encourage players to use your sponsors but also opens up the field to players that want to play but may find the cost of the seats a little hard on their wallet.
Ticket Allocations: okay this may sound a bit selfish but as someone who has always had the games best interest at heart I set up our own poker club and all our members joined the Apat, I know there a lot of other like-minded clubs and say for in return for banners on our sites poker clubs have an option to purchase one or two tickets for their players prior to the event.
I hope some of this makes sense and once again congratulations on your new Forum
Regards
Paul Robinson
AKA LuckyBuggah
Hi Paul,
Thanks for your thoughts and good wishes with the forum.
You have made some interesting suggestions, particularly in having two venues in the one town effectively run day one. That is not an option we had considered before and allow us some time to think that through. The biggest challenge is likely to be gaining the support of "competing" venues.
The whole qualifying question is being looked at. We have trialled a number of allocation methods this season and recognise the need for a consistent entry method for season two. I expect a great deal of discussion on this point prior to confirming plans for S2 in August / September.
Regards,
Des.
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Just a thought but what about in subsquent seasons having more to play for in the rankings for example the top ten or so at the end of each season are given priority for seats in the following season for live events, it might give a bit more insentive for players to play more online tournys even when they are too far behind to win the carribean trip
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Just a thought but what about in subsquent seasons having more to play for in the rankings for example the top ten or so at the end of each season are given priority for seats in the following season for live events, it might give a bit more insentive for players to play more online tournys even when they are too far behind to win the carribean trip
Another very good idea.....thanks Chris.
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Hi,
My suggestion is to award points for the online series individual tournaments from 200 for first down to 1pt for 200th place. These points would be cumulative and when live tournaments are offered they would be offered to the top points scorers in order, thus rewarding the regular apat supporters, and encouraging larger fields and bigger prize pools in the online events and giving everyone an equal crack at qualifying for the live events. Indeed these might even be used for ranking points.
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Not sure I agree with the idea of using online competition as a way of settling the issue of who gains entry into live events.
Personally I avoid playing online, for a couple of reasons:
1. I find it boring, and has little in common with live play (contentious ? I"m sure I"ll get a few comments for that one)
2. I have a problem with the PokerStars software - it constantly times out on my PC (no problem with other software, VC, Betfair etc when I was playing online)
A fairer method may be to have regional qualifyers at local casinos of casino groups who have already embraced APAT - live qualifyers for live events, makes much more sense to me......
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Not sure I agree with the idea of using online competition as a way of settling the issue of who gains entry into live events.
Personally I avoid playing online, for a couple of reasons:
1. I find it boring, and has little in common with live play (contentious ? I"m sure I"ll get a few comments for that one)
2. I have a problem with the PokerStars software - it constantly times out on my PC (no problem with other software, VC, Betfair etc when I was playing online)
A fairer method may be to have regional qualifyers at local casinos of casino groups who have already embraced APAT - live qualifyers for live events, makes much more sense to me......
I would say a mix of live and on-line satellites is the best solution combined with direct buy-ins - in fact just about exactly how they do it now! The allocation of the direct buy-in seats is a bit contentious. I prefer the "click-fest" approach as, having no life, I"m prepared to put everything else aside in the quest for a seat ;D although I will concede a random draw is probably fairer. The only problem with the live sats is replicating the deepstack structure which most of us find so appealing about the APAT events.
One other idea. How about a Grand Final for season 2? Everyone who"s final-tabled either live or online during the season invited to buy a seat for a weekend extravaganza at Dusk Till Dawn - you can have that one for free!
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As the events are a sell out, why not look at 2 venues for each game, For example - if you were to play in Blackpool you could use Stanleys and the Grosevenor and play the final at one of them, this way you could open up the competition to a lot more people and fill the cardroom on the 2nd day. I know logistics of this isn"t always straightforward but could be worth considering.
Regards
Paul Robinson
AKA LuckyBuggah
Another option which gets round the competing venues problem is to have 2 "day 1"s" similar to the WSOP main event.
I know this means adding the Friday as well as the Saturday but many players are taking the Friday off work anyway. The Sunday is quite a short day in poker terms so most get home that night. Except of course when in Ireland when I"ll still be drinking Guinness!!
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i don"t agree with a friday start as most people work
i don"t agree with regional qualifiers as it would favor the locals (the closest event as been a 2 hour drive for me)
i would support a system where the on-line regular players get first chance as these are the people who support the APAT regally + it would increase the field. it would cut down on the semi-professional trying to cash in on the add value of a EPT seat (after all it is a amateur tour)
at the end of the day its APAT's fault for being sooooo good (a nice headache for Des to have) lol
:D
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APAT has trialled a number of seat allocation methods during season one and the range of opinions in the few responses above, shows what a challenge it will be to find a method that will be universally accepted.
I think it is fair to say, as a live play organisation, that casino tournament play should have a significant part to play in the allocation process. Similarly, we will have a responsibility to our sponsors to allocate a percentage of the seats via their channels. Direct buy in or member draws thereafter? The jury is out and it will be interesting to hear your views here.
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i would support a system where the on-line regular players get first chance as these are the people who support the APAT regally + it would increase the field. it would cut down on the semi-professional trying to cash in on the add value of a EPT seat (after all it is a amateur tour)
I disagree with the above, whether one supports the APAT regularly or not (by playing online regularly) everyone is a true member of APAT and, therefore, should be extended the same rights and priveleges. Once again it falls into the category of which days/dates/times are suitable to each individual player. I know that the times stated for the online ones are hard for me to achieve as I work evenings and I have a young family, I am sure there are many other APAT members who have similar difficulties in making the tournaments online but would play them if they were able.
Mary Martin
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I live in Ireland and would have been at every live event had I been able to guarantee a seat early and book my travel and accommodation.
The on-line qualifiers are good for me, as it allows me to gain a seat earlier so that I can make arrangements to travel. The more on-line qualifiers the better.
The proposals put forward so far are valid and creative, although I strongly disagree about preferential treatment for any player, whether they enter more events or are higher up the points ladder. I feel that this would be a mistake. Some of the players who are in competition for points initially gained their seat through a lottery, so to then give these players priority in subsequent events is wrong.
All the players competing for a top spot seem to have been able to qualify for Dublin so it doesnt seem to be a major issue, yet. As APAT grows as im sure it will this may become more of a problem. Perhaps the answer lies in bigger or multiple venues.
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I agree that the answer lies in being able to get more people to play.
Season 2 is undoubtedly going to have a greater demand and I would be interested in knowing how many members we have and how many have applied for the seat lottery. Perhaps if there were 2 day 1s you could offer the choice of which day you wanted to play and then those that are able to play on the friday could apply for that day. If players are restricted to only apply for the one day and they knew that the Fridays were less popular then you would be more likely to get those people applying for the Friday because they will stand a better chance of getting a place.
Obviously this assumes there is the demand for that many places but from what I can tell there seems to be huge demand and I would expect both days to sell out.
One other thing, whilst I appreciate the reason for the clapping when people go out, and the idea of promoting the friendly atmosphere, it does get a bit monotonous after a while, especially when people are dropping like flies and it can affect players" concentration.
I would be interested to know what others think.
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My view is that all APAT events must be open events and available to all amateur players to take part in. It is interesting how the problem of demand for seats being greater than supply is not just an APAT issue, the same is happening on the profesional tours run by Gala & Grosvenor. The reason is excellent added value, great organisation and a structure designed to allow people to play poker. It is only a matter of time before the need for larger venues is recognised and much bigger fields can be accomodated.
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I have to say Mikelott, I like the clapping as people go out, it makes the atmosphere. I can understand your point when people are going out all the time but if I am in a pot and concentrating I don"t clap purely because I am so deeply involved I don"t notice. However, there are plenty of people who won"t be in a hand that I think can clap without having and major effect on their game.
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Some of you may have read my views on this subject on blonde... but since this is now the correct place to discuss this I have copied that post below -
I think any suggestion of seeding or giving priority to anyone is just wrong (unless it is to the inaugural S American Open Champion!!).
This just means that someone who was not lucky enough (for any number of reasons), to secure a seat in one or more previous tourneys, then has even less chance of getting into a future one.
APAT live tournaments, it seems to me, should be open to all APAT members, with equal oppurtunity.
For what it"s worth, I think the method used this time is getting there ie.
1. Live satellite at venue - although I think 20 of 150 seats is a bit high.
2. Online satellites - I think 3 x 9 seats is about right. (DesD, Would it be possible to prevent someone playing a 2nd sat if they had already won a seat in a previous one)
3. A direct pay "Clickfest" - with remaining seats made available in 3 seperate lots over 3 days, this should give most people the oppurtunity to have a go.
As for a draw, I think this is the worst option. Whilst it may appear to be the fairest way, I can assure you that the only way to may a random draw look truely random is to rig it!! You will get some people getting into every tourney while others never get into one.
Well, that"s my 2p worth... I think I need a lay down!
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I have to say Mikelott, I like the clapping as people go out, it makes the atmosphere. I can understand your point when people are going out all the time but if I am in a pot and concentrating I don"t clap purely because I am so deeply involved I don"t notice. However, there are plenty of people who won"t be in a hand that I think can clap without having and major effect on their game.
I agree with you Cazzaline, it makes for a great and respectful atmosphere.
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I have to say Mikelott, I like the clapping as people go out, it makes the atmosphere. I can understand your point when people are going out all the time but if I am in a pot and concentrating I don"t clap purely because I am so deeply involved I don"t notice. However, there are plenty of people who won"t be in a hand that I think can clap without having and major effect on their game.
I agree with you Cazzaline, it makes for a great and respectful atmosphere.
I like the clapping bit...This is something I think which has gone on from Bham...In Bham Tikay asked for the applause for the first person out, and we all clapped but then the next person went out and it was the right thing to do, and so on and so on ,,, we all clapped as each player went out. This carried on right until I went out (6th) and it made me feel a lot better.... You get beat your stomach sinks, but the round of applause of the remaining players (and railers) makes you smile...This makes a difference.. Keep it up... It doesnt cost nothing...and will never hury anyone, but it will make a difference to the atmosphere aroud the place..
As for the tickets, I dont like the draws. The online and live sats are a good idea, and the click fest... If you want to get in and there is a click fest, you will get in...There may of been problems with the clickfest system in the past, but the mixture of sats (live and online) and clickfest IMO is the best option...
I once went to a family party late to make sure I was in for the clickfest..
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APAT has trialled a number of seat allocation methods during season one and the range of opinions in the few responses above, shows what a challenge it will be to find a method that will be universally accepted.
I think it is fair to say, as a live play organisation, that casino tournament play should have a significant part to play in the allocation process. Similarly, we will have a responsibility to our sponsors to allocate a percentage of the seats via their channels. Direct buy in or member draws thereafter? The jury is out and it will be interesting to hear your views here.
We first need to decide if we want, as well as achieve, bigger fields. A number of suggestions have been put forward that could help with this. A bigger field would reduce (not eliminate) the frustration for those, like me, who didn"t get into 1 or more of the live events.
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Is it possible to have 2 day one's say start at 12.00 play until 6 any who are still in return back on Sunday then have dinner the second group start at 7 till 1. It would mean a bigger field on Sunday but since they seem to finish about 8 there is plenty of time, you could start earlier on Sunday
Can this work?
Are am I talking out of my back side (Please be careful with your reply :o)
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Is it possible to have 2 day one's say start at 12.00 play until 6 any who are still in return back on Sunday then have dinner the second group start at 7 till 1. It would mean a bigger field on Sunday but since they seem to finish about 8 there is plenty of time, you could start earlier on Sunday
Can this work?
Are am I talking out of my back side (Please be careful with your reply :o)
Sounds like you want to run two day ones in one day. That"s backside worthy ;D
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Just trying to make more work for you Des
;D
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I agree that the demand is there , so why not try more to accomodate it. If 400 want to play lets try to let them or at least as many as possible.
Can we not have 2 days (you could apply for Fri or Sat depending on work commitments)
OR
as was suggested earlier use 2 or 3 casinos in the same town. I can"t see how casinos would object to being filled by a 150+ poker players for at least one day although I suppose there would be some cat fighting over who hosted the Final table.
Are there any other ways we could get more playing at the live events??
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Will the European live tournament be over three days as in the calendar?
???
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My suggestion is to publish the calendar of live events at the start of the season and invite members to rank them in the order that they would most like to attend. Then to pre-allocate everybody at least one seat (and hopefully more) based on their individual preferences. I suggest that 75% of the seats for each tournament could be allocated in this manner and the rest made available through the current mix of live and on-line satellites and click-fest this should reduce the number of complaints about whichever click-fest method is chosen. I don"t know how many members APAT has and I doubt whether everybody would get their first choice but at least each member would get a seat somewhere.
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My suggestion is to publish the calendar of live events at the start of the season and invite members to rank them in the order that they would most like to attend. Then to pre-allocate everybody at least one seat (and hopefully more) based on their individual preferences. I suggest that 75% of the seats for each tournament could be allocated in this manner and the rest made available through the current mix of live and on-line satellites and click-fest this should reduce the number of complaints about whichever click-fest method is chosen. I don"t know how many members APAT has and I doubt whether everybody would get their first choice but at least each member would get a seat somewhere.
Can I rate all events as "number 1".. ;D.. I really want to play them all, but due to things that have clashed I could play in 2,,,,,,,
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I have to say Mikelott, I like the clapping as people go out, it makes the atmosphere. I can understand your point when people are going out all the time but if I am in a pot and concentrating I don"t clap purely because I am so deeply involved I don"t notice. However, there are plenty of people who won"t be in a hand that I think can clap without having and major effect on their game.
Good post!
Don"t abandon the clapping and the friendly atmosphere - it is a major aspect of the APAt events.
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i would support a system where the on-line regular players get first chance as these are the people who support the APAT regally ...
I would be a regular APAt online player if i did not have to work on a Saturday night.......