Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: AMRN on April 08, 2011, 18:23:46 PM
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In S2 and S3, seats at APAT tournaments were like rocking horse poo - the ClickFest sales typically sold out in under 2 minutes.
In S4, sales seemed to slow down, despite smaller fields.
I see that for Newcastle in S5, almost 24 hours after the sale opened, only 55 seats are sold. I"m sure it will sell out before time though.
So my question is, why did APAT 200 runner events sell out in minutes two seasons ago, but now even with comparatively reduced field sizes, events are not selling out with anything like the same gusto. Why?
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32 people will be registering through a different thread - however it is still a mystery....
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I think the answer is simple - more choice and lack of novelty.
There are now much more 2 day deepstacks at affordable prices that are following the APAT model. There are also much better structured 1 day comps being organised.
When APAT started there was no such thing as affordable deepstack events and you could count the well structured 1 day comps on one hand. So when the chance to play in an APAT event came around people would snap up the seats.
Finances may also be a reason, but they are still selling out so not that big a factor
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The economy and the plethora of other tours have undoubtedly eaten into the enthusiasm but the value overall is the primary draw for me.
Oh...and the people...well, some of them. ;D
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I think Rob has hit the nail on the head.
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The economy and the plethora of other tours have undoubtedly eaten into the enthusiasm but the value overall is the primary draw for me.
Oh...and the people...well, some of them. ;D
+1
Plus the family pressure factor of being away for 2/3 days over easter I for one am a victim of this :(
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And this one clashes with Easter Weekend, and the first game of the new Cricket season!
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Competition. Lots of affordable deepstack events (APAT was first!) even up to things like the UKIPT which I think impacts everything as you can get in for v low money, frequently
Timing. Easter weekend. However if it wasn"t Easter weekend, there wasn"t another weekend free for weeks either side...we are back to competition again
A clickfest also created its own demand. People were concerned about sell outs so had to buy in early or risk missing out. With holding tanks that artificially shoehorn-ing of demand into a small timeframe is absent, so selling periods are longer...
I don"t think enthusiasm is lower (look at numbers for online leagues on APAT etc) but people pick and choose live events more these days
Back in the day, APAT was it, and big festivals aside smaller buy in players had nothing apart from the standard regular provincial casino fare to go at. That scarcity factor is now absent
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Still the best value and community tour on the planet.
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big difference between UKIPT and APAT though - £550 stretches the realms of affordability for me.... £75 is realistically affordable to the part time player imo
as far as I"m aware, there is no other tour that offers a 2 day well structured deepstack with oodles of added value - for £75. I think APAT still has a market niche.
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Maybe poker just isn"t quite as popular now as it was five years ago also. APAT began when the poker boom was peeking. There was about 80,000 runners for example in the WSOP main event in S1 of APAT when Jamie Gold won it..since then perhaps it"s settled down and bit.
Also the other reasons people have mentioned.
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Bring back the "clickfest" i say.. It was always amusing to get a phone call from the bank the morning after claiming fraudulent goings on because of the frantic clicking..
One thing i noticed APAT forums have somewhere in the region of 7500 unique users.
But what is an accuarate number of followers? (season 5)
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But what is an accuarate number of followers? (season 5)
2 - marry me ;D
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big difference between UKIPT and APAT though - £550 stretches the realms of affordability for me.... £75 is realistically affordable to the part time player imo
but my point is that a lot of the UKIPT field is qualifiers for well less than £75, and these events get massive runners
I think there is a knock on effect everywhere else.
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big difference between UKIPT and APAT though - £550 stretches the realms of affordability for me.... £75 is realistically affordable to the part time player imo
as far as I"m aware, there is no other tour that offers a 2 day well structured deepstack with oodles of added value - for £75. I think APAT still has a market niche.
its not just the £75 though is it? if you aren"t local then you will incur hotel and travel costs which (in Newcastle) will dwarf the actual entry cost. I know for a fact that this puts off a few people who really like playing these events but the expenses make it less appealing.
Plus the perception is that the standard is likely to be higher than a standard £75 casino tournament and the standard in the UKIPT isn"t very high (with obv sprinkling of vv good players). Also take the £336 Deepstack at DTD, again its a good tournament with high % of very ordinary players and you can qualify reasonably cheaply.
APAT tournaments are still great, but i think the number of players who will play every leg of the tour to get points/leaderboard etc will fall from when the tour first started because of the alternatives available.
APAT are still the only sub £200 tournaments i would travel over half an hours drive to play in but the live poker market is much more competitive than it was say 3 years ago
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holding it on easter weekend does not help but as tighty has said it was the only weekend for newcastle that was free, i also think that the hotel price in newcastle are also a problem anything in newcastle centre is costing more then the tournament buy in making other comps more appealing for me
and i also think rob has pretty much got it spot on
but if there is a lack of novelty might be time to try and hold some apat comps in places its never been too ie Yorkshire Liverpool and and not take it to luton and london in the same year but there probably a very good reason for this
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Location is the big stopper for me - Newcastle isn"t realistically car-able from Bristol and I prefer to have the option to bugger off home if I don"t make Day 2!
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For me, if I was to miss an APAT event, I would (am) gutted.
The cameraderie amongst the players is part of the uniqueness(??) that makes these events "special"
And winning one is nice too, though at my age, remembering having done so is the hard part ;D
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There will always be venues that sell a hell of a lot quicker than others, and Newcastle has always been a venue that people tend not to travel to as a first choice. Luton/London/Manchester/Blackpool/Coventry etc will always sell quickly. If this event was in Birmingham then I reckon despite it being Easter weekend it would sell out a 200 runner event...and thats just the BCPC ;)
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big difference between UKIPT and APAT though - £550 stretches the realms of affordability for me.... £75 is realistically affordable to the part time player imo
as far as I"m aware, there is no other tour that offers a 2 day well structured deepstack with oodles of added value - for £75. I think APAT still has a market niche.
its not just the £75 though is it? if you aren"t local then you will incur hotel and travel costs which (in Newcastle) will dwarf the actual entry cost. I know for a fact that this puts off a few people who really like playing these events but the expenses make it less appealing.
Plus the perception is that the standard is likely to be higher than a standard £75 casino tournament and the standard in the UKIPT isn"t very high (with obv sprinkling of vv good players). Also take the £336 Deepstack at DTD, again its a good tournament with high % of very ordinary players and you can qualify reasonably cheaply.
APAT tournaments are still great, but i think the number of players who will play every leg of the tour to get points/leaderboard etc will fall from when the tour first started because of the alternatives available.
APAT are still the only sub £200 tournaments i would travel over half an hours drive to play in but the live poker market is much more competitive than it was say 3 years ago
This opoinion definately gets my vote, before APAT there was very little for the average buy in deepstack, but now DTD grand prix 5 day ones, Circus £100 buy ins,people have a choice with very little travelling. The Dublin tourneys were great, because it was Dublin but now the expense of travelling to Newcastle, Scotland, doe"s not make it viable. Even with the incentive of Jack parading in the nude
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Incentive ? :o
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Incentive ? :o
Listen to Christopher. The man speaks sense.