APAT Staking Exchange - Discussion

[Des]

APAT have never previously allowed staking on the forum, but we'd like to hear what the members think.  Our concerns have always been around members being defrauded in some form of way.  That said we've operated the seat exchange for several years and I'm not aware of a transaction not completing as expected.  However the potential values involved in staking are quite different, so I'd welcome your feedback.

Maybe Rich can also tell us a bit about how it works on blonde?

[TightEnd]

Hello!

The way it works is as follows. Of course there are a variety of ways it can be formulated


- A minimum post count (arbitrary) so that new members cannot immediately ask for staking before they are known in the community
- A template of information that it is desirable to include as a staker
- blonde takes no commission, or commercial return, it just acts as the forum/marketplace
- There have been a small number of grims but a far greater number of huge successes. We do not get involved in disputes, though we moderate for the normal stuff like inappropriate content


the ground rules sated are as follows

"After much consideration we have decided to introduce two new child boards

- Online tournament Staking (child board of Internet Poker)

- Live tournament staking (child board of Live Poker)

There will of course be some basic ground-rules for members to observe.

- You may offer to stake players, or ask for staking, or apply for an offer of staking, but only if you have a minimum of 300 forum posts and have been a member of the forum for at least three months.

- Posts should detail in full the proposal to be discussed, rates and amounts available to produce transparency in all instances.

- Begging posts will be removed

- Names of those staking an individual can remain confidential to PMs

- blonde Poker will not become involved in disputes as to the stake itself under any circumstances but will moderate public boards in line with its guidelines for flaming etc.

- This will be non-commercial for blonde Poker."


I would have thought that the level of community within APAT, and the fmailiarity of many posters to each other, would make staking a good thing to have on here, if set up correctly

[Des]

Thanks Rich, that's pretty clear.  So, what do you all think?

[Bigfella42]

While I understand the caution, never really agreed with the APAT stance of not allowing staking. I declare a vested interest as on Blonde I have sold and bought action.

Personally I think it adds to the value of a forum. APAT have some great players and to be able to follow them with a financial interest adds to the fun (well it does for me anyway). With the APAT community now well established we know each other pretty well so as long as people stick to buying stakes in people they trust there shouldn't be any problems.

As an example, with the wsop just starting, staking gives people the chance to have a small interest. This year I'll be following Stuart Rutter and Lil Dave with interest and as they are exceptional players (well Rutter is anyway  ) I consider the outlay +ve in the long term, and as they are playing tournies outside my bankroll I can now follow these events with added interest.

I think it also adds to the community. Staking threads become update and sweat threads and on the odd occassion when people run deep they attract the support of the whole forum.

So yes, it would get my vote.

[Waz1892]

Without a doubt it would work and im sure it would be clear of anything bad going on, as the APAT community would ensure it was "clean"

  
My only question would be -Does it have enough active members to make it work as in stakers vs requests?

To me it seems blonde works because you have a much large community and thus, to me at least, it seems larger bankrolls and willing players to stake someone.

wish it well, and would watch this closely myself!  

[Paulie_D]

I have no particular opinion to the positive or negative other than I would add that staking should not extend to APAT events and that you cannot sell part of your action if you win a prize seat.

Blonde don't have that rule because it doesn't apply to them.

2 cents

[Des]

Good feedback thus far, thanks.

Paulie - presume your point is to ensure the staker and the stakee do not play the same event?

[mylesfdo]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" [mod edit] poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

[Bigfella42]

I have no particular opinion to the positive or negative other than I would add that staking should not extend to APAT events and that you cannot sell part of your action if you win a prize seat.

Blonde don't have that rule because it doesn't apply to them.

2 cents

Out of interest Paulie why would you object to people selling stakes in APAT events. Take Cardiff last week, I wasn't there but if I had 10% of 3 players what would be wrong with that? It's probably unlikely to be popular as I know it's only £7.50, but in principle why not?

[Des]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

Ta, not necessarily looking to promote a third party site as we have some very close ties with sites that offer the service, rather I'm asking here for members views about APAT offering the service, although do appreciate that we could get some good leads from existing services.

[mylesfdo]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

Ta, not necessarily looking to promote a third party site as we have some very close ties with sites that offer the service, rather I'm asking here for members views about APAT offering the service, although do appreciate that we could get some good leads from existing services.

Not quite sure why its ok to promote blonde as a reference and not the site I mentioned!!

Wasnt trying to promote the site just referenced as a great place to look for ideas as they have had some massive scores on there.

[AMRN]

Excellent idea, and helps take APAT forward and retain market currency.

The community spirit around APAT is immense, and for that reason, policing the process will simple - in fact, it suspect it would almost police itself within the membership.

It may also act as a way of bringing new members to the fold - either people who play APAT events, but don't use the forum, or totally new membership.

As for selling shares in AAPT events - not sure why an APAT event should be considered any differently to any other tourney..... and some of us already trade percentages anyway in an adhoc fashion.  And if a major event seat is won, again, I see nothing wrong with selling some of the action.

[Des]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

Ta, not necessarily looking to promote a third party site as we have some very close ties with sites that offer the service, rather I'm asking here for members views about APAT offering the service, although do appreciate that we could get some good leads from existing services.

Not quite sure why its ok to promote blonde as a reference and not the site I mentioned!!

Wasnt trying to promote the site just referenced as a great place to look for ideas as they have had some massive scores on there.

blonde and APAT share many members, and indeed founding management, and have a long standing informal cooperative agreement built up over six years.   There is a lot of trust between us and we work well for it.

[mylesfdo]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

Ta, not necessarily looking to promote a third party site as we have some very close ties with sites that offer the service, rather I'm asking here for members views about APAT offering the service, although do appreciate that we could get some good leads from existing services.

Not quite sure why its ok to promote blonde as a reference and not the site I mentioned!!

Wasnt trying to promote the site just referenced as a great place to look for ideas as they have had some massive scores on there.

blonde and APAT share many members, and indeed founding management, and have a long standing informal cooperative agreement built up over six years.   There is a lot of trust between us and we work well for it.

fair dos....hope u see wasnt trying to promote the site merely give a reference to get some ideas to make the staking board the best it could be.

[Des]

Very good idea and a great site to look at for ideas would be "dum-de-dah" poker.....on there they offer backers the opportunity for horses to apply for stakes i.e a backer offers a $100 stake and horses state what they would do with it OR backer can specify what mtt's/sng's or mix of two horse is to play.....a rail is kept and stakes can run for 1 day up to x months I believe.

They also offer the opportunity for backers to buy a piece of your action in that you draw up a plan and sell shares in this plan for x amount per share i.e plan is to play 100 45 man $11 sng's on Stars-total would be $495 and offering 495x$1 shares....once shares sell out(horse can obv buy shares) a request for $$ to be shipped is sent and horse starts to play the scheduled sng's/mtt's.......a rail is kept keeping backers up to date with number of tournies played, bust out hands and running banrkoll total....once schedule has been completed the bankroll is then totaled and shares will have a final value i.e in example mentioned say closing br is $1500 each share will be worth $3.03 and then funds are sent back to backer depending on how many shares they own.......the site does not charge a commission but charge the player a fee to set up the share offering.

Obviously the above can have many variations with sng's and mtt's being included, levels being increased if certain br is reached and sattys into bigger mtts being included.......live tournament sales can also be offered up for sale as well and many players bankroll themselves for wsop etc using this method.

There have been massive scores on the site with Sunday Million, FTOPS and WSOP events being won whilst under backing!!

Ta, not necessarily looking to promote a third party site as we have some very close ties with sites that offer the service, rather I'm asking here for members views about APAT offering the service, although do appreciate that we could get some good leads from existing services.

Not quite sure why its ok to promote blonde as a reference and not the site I mentioned!!

Wasnt trying to promote the site just referenced as a great place to look for ideas as they have had some massive scores on there.

blonde and APAT share many members, and indeed founding management, and have a long standing informal cooperative agreement built up over six years.   There is a lot of trust between us and we work well for it.

fair dos....hope u see wasnt trying to promote the site merely give a reference to get some ideas to make the staking board the best it could be.

Yep, no probs.  Just removed the name from this discussion for the moment.