Poker Forum > Strategy
Can We Check Back A Set On A Wet Board In This Scenario?
deanp27:
Dislike pre, especially as one player behind is so short they can"t reopen the betting. Its a clear jam from me.
Obvious answer is to bet/jam now and I probably would. I"d only ever check if I knew it would induce villain to do something daft on the turn (which is unlikely given almost dry sidepot) so I"d just bet to protect/for value now
AMRN:
In another thread where UTG opens to 3.5x, where UTG and Btn are both 35x deep, I advocated calling from the Btn with TT.... lots of people said this was really bad because we were only getting around 10/1 to set-mine....... in this scenario, we are only getting around 7/1...... I hope opinions from the other thread carry over!
Personally, regardless of the short stacked BB, I"m shoving this all day preflop. You seem to want to avoid a clash with the other big stack.... well I"m sure he would also want to avoid a clash with you, given the 4 stack sizes.
Shove pre.
As played, open shove flop.
deanp27:
Yeah but in the tens hand I wouldnt be calling just to set mine, certainly not set mining here either.
AAroddersAA:
--- Quote from: AMRN on December 22, 2011, 13:53:24 PM ---
In another thread where UTG opens to 3.5x, where UTG and Btn are both 35x deep, I advocated calling from the Btn with TT.... lots of people said this was really bad because we were only getting around 10/1 to set-mine....... in this scenario, we are only getting around 7/1...... I hope opinions from the other thread carry over!
Personally, regardless of the short stacked BB, I"m shoving this all day preflop. You seem to want to avoid a clash with the other big stack.... well I"m sure he would also want to avoid a clash with you, given the 4 stack sizes.
Shove pre.
As played, open shove flop
--- End quote ---
Yay, I am now lots of people, I have only ever been one person before. :-)
OK, I believe this to be a different spot (and you have also suggested a different play Steve :-) ). By shoving we increase our stack size by 20% if he folds this play was not available in the TT hand.
Because we are short handed here his range SHOULD be much bigger (although the bet sizing is still strong, John does not mention if this differs from the table norm though - if it does it might make a difference but ranges are still likely to be wider). The fact we only have four players means that his range could well look like the below:-
Any pair say 66+
Any suited Aces
Any two broadway cards
We are about 50/50 against that range but the shove folds out lots of hands that we would be flipping against. If we shove we MIGHT only get called if we are beaten (but as I said above this is not likely I think at least hands like 77 & 88 call as well of lots we are flipping with AK, AQ, AJ etc) if we have this range accurate we make chips anyway (if this is ICM suicide tell me, I do this a lot, but it is +cEV).
Without any further reads I think shove pre is best. Shove>fold>call
As played, simples - Jam now as you are unlikely to pick up a c-bet into a dry side pot. If he folds you increase your stack by around 50%. If he calls you are likely to be ahead anyway.
Also, just a point to Mark, I dislike clicking it back (we are never folding if we do) because he maybe shoves some hands that he would fold if we shoved (AQ and AJ being possible examples also KQs and KJs type hands) and we end up in a race where it would have been much better to just take down the pot preflop. Again my thinking could be off here would like to here different opinions. What are the advantages to clicking back over shoving?
Cheers
mporter123:
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on December 22, 2011, 17:25:04 PM ---
Also, just a point to Mark, I dislike clicking it back (we are never folding if we do) because he maybe shoves some hands that he would fold if we shoved (AQ and AJ being possible examples also KQs and KJs type hands) and we end up in a race where it would have been much better to just take down the pot preflop. Again my thinking could be off here would like to here different opinions. What are the advantages to clicking back over shoving?
Cheers
--- End quote ---
This is the exact reason why I like clicking it back. Never with the intention of folding but I wanna give him the opportunity to jam all his pocket pairs 88 and below and random Ax type hands that we are in great shape against. This may involve more races against overcards but think we crush him enough of the time that I prefer it to just shoving.
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