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Line Check - 180 man turbo

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AAroddersAA:
Actually looking again at the above hand it does not make a good example of the spot I am trying to look at here, this one is probably better. Is raise/call better than shove?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.5 Tournament, 1,500/3,000 Blinds 300 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

UTG+1 (t44,151)
Hero (MP1) (t42,258)
MP2 (t43,258)
CO (t18,500)
Button (t9,777)
SB (t45,788)
BB (t42,186)
UTG (t24,082)

Hero"s M: 6.12

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, Q
2 folds, Hero raises to t41,958 (All-In), 5 folds

Total pot: t9,900

Fatcatstu:

--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on September 13, 2013, 11:02:15 AM ---
Actually looking again at the above hand it does not make a good example of the spot I am trying to look at here, this one is probably better. Is raise/call better than shove?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.5 Tournament, 1,500/3,000 Blinds 300 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

UTG+1 (t44,151)
Hero (MP1) (t42,258)
MP2 (t43,258)
CO (t18,500)
Button (t9,777)
SB (t45,788)
BB (t42,186)
UTG (t24,082)

Hero"s M: 6.12

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, Q
2 folds, Hero raises to t41,958 (All-In), 5 folds

Total pot: t9,900

--- End quote ---


Open shoving this is fine IMO.

We are probably flipping most of the time, but with 13 bb, never min raise folding anyway so might as well get it in first and hope to force some marginal hands out and get winning dem flips!!!

This could be why I have been busting out in 60th a lot recently!!

AAroddersAA:

--- Quote from: Fatcatstu on September 13, 2013, 11:30:23 AM ---

--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on September 13, 2013, 11:02:15 AM ---
Actually looking again at the above hand it does not make a good example of the spot I am trying to look at here, this one is probably better. Is raise/call better than shove?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 2.5 Tournament, 1,500/3,000 Blinds 300 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

UTG+1 (t44,151)
Hero (MP1) (t42,258)
MP2 (t43,258)
CO (t18,500)
Button (t9,777)
SB (t45,788)
BB (t42,186)
UTG (t24,082)

Hero"s M: 6.12

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, Q
2 folds, Hero raises to t41,958 (All-In), 5 folds

Total pot: t9,900

--- End quote ---


Open shoving this is fine IMO.

We are probably flipping most of the time, but with 13 bb, never min raise folding anyway so might as well get it in first and hope to force some marginal hands out and get winning dem flips!!!

This could be why I have been busting out in 60th a lot recently!!

--- End quote ---

We are never min raising/folding, should we be min raise/calling though?

Sillbags:
I think I prefer min raise/calling rather than shoving, but there is a lot of other factors I would be considering. Would you be min raise/folding any part of you range here? Do your opponents know that? How would you play  Ac 10d in this spot? or  5c 5d? It"s very important to be balanced, but if you are only min raise/calling with the top of your value range (say AQ+ TT+) then you will not be balanced. Maybe it would be a more balanced play to open shove 13bb with your entire value range. Obv if you"re opponents are clueless and not paying attention, then none of this matters :)

dwh103:
Opponent dependent, it"s more down to whether there"s any chance they analyse your range incorrectly and believe the illusion of fold equity.

If Villains will reshove a fair bit wider than they call the shove, then raise/call (ldo). As Neil says, it"s important you"re balanced with your range - not that it matters at this level though for the most part.

It"s a good idea to play around with some figures. Check out http://www.pokerxfactor.com/sheets/openshove.html

The scenarios I"ve plugged in suggest that if the reshoving range is in any way wider than the shove calling range then raise/call shows a better return. You could, of course, get peeled, but with a superior hand vs a calling range you"ll show a profit in the long run in that scenario.

Open jamming loses some EV, but saves you the stress and is lower variance. And against some tight ranges, open shove is around the same as raise/fold.

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