Poker Forum > Strategy

JM 08/10/13 - Should I fold QQ here ?

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Sillbags:
I see this as a call, call, evaluate river as others suggest. The interesting discussion is whether or not to 3 bet pre. I personally think that 3 betting pre in this spot is optimal and here is why. By 3 betting you are obviously building a pot where you think you have the best hand. You will be defining opponents ranges somewhat based on whether they call or 4 bet and you have position. Opening yourself up to getting 4 bet obviously makes things tricky, but not as much as you may think. It is pretty rare for players to 4 bet anything other than AA, KK or AK here, but like rodders said, will call often with 99-JJ. I used to think it was always bad to 3 bet hands for value, if you are going to have to fold to a 4 bet, but if your 3 bet is often called by worse and his 4 bet range has you crushed, then surely it simplifies the hand. Further more, I think with the caller from mp+1 you can make this something like $1.25 pre and being 100bb deep effective, and even if you got 4 bet to say $3.50 you can safely eliminate bluffs from their range. Who is going to 4 bet bluff 1/3 effective stacks?

TheSnapper:

--- Quote from: Sillbags on October 09, 2013, 15:47:31 PM ---
I see this as a call, call, evaluate river as others suggest. The interesting discussion is whether or not to 3 bet pre. I personally think that 3 betting pre in this spot is optimal and here is why. By 3 betting you are obviously building a pot where you think you have the best hand. You will be defining opponents ranges somewhat based on whether they call or 4 bet and you have position. Opening yourself up to getting 4 bet obviously makes things tricky, but not as much as you may think. It is pretty rare for players to 4 bet anything other than AA, KK or AK here, but like rodders said, will call often with 99-JJ. I used to think it was always bad to 3 bet hands for value, if you are going to have to fold to a 4 bet, but if your 3 bet is often called by worse and his 4 bet range has you crushed, then surely it simplifies the hand. Further more, I think with the caller from mp+1 you can make this something like $1.25 pre and being 100bb deep effective, and even if you got 4 bet to say $3.50 you can safely eliminate bluffs from their range. Who is going to 4 bet bluff 1/3 effective stacks?

--- End quote ---


Excellent post .

Are you suggesting 3b fold ?

Sillbags:

--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 09, 2013, 16:10:38 PM ---

--- Quote from: Sillbags on October 09, 2013, 15:47:31 PM ---
I see this as a call, call, evaluate river as others suggest. The interesting discussion is whether or not to 3 bet pre. I personally think that 3 betting pre in this spot is optimal and here is why. By 3 betting you are obviously building a pot where you think you have the best hand. You will be defining opponents ranges somewhat based on whether they call or 4 bet and you have position. Opening yourself up to getting 4 bet obviously makes things tricky, but not as much as you may think. It is pretty rare for players to 4 bet anything other than AA, KK or AK here, but like rodders said, will call often with 99-JJ. I used to think it was always bad to 3 bet hands for value, if you are going to have to fold to a 4 bet, but if your 3 bet is often called by worse and his 4 bet range has you crushed, then surely it simplifies the hand. Further more, I think with the caller from mp+1 you can make this something like $1.25 pre and being 100bb deep effective, and even if you got 4 bet to say $3.50 you can safely eliminate bluffs from their range. Who is going to 4 bet bluff 1/3 effective stacks?

--- End quote ---


Excellent post .

Are you suggesting 3b fold ?

--- End quote ---


It"s certainly an option Brendan. I like to think outside the box sometimes though so I may be wrong on this. I actually had a very similar spot in the Bristol Masters last weekend where I chose to 4 bet fold QQ from utg, as I believed his 5 bet range was KK+, AK but he would call with 99-JJ and I didn"t want to play post flop oop. He showed AA, and I may have lost the minimum

AAroddersAA:

--- Quote from: Sillbags on October 09, 2013, 17:31:04 PM ---

--- Quote from: TheSnapper on October 09, 2013, 16:10:38 PM ---

--- Quote from: Sillbags on October 09, 2013, 15:47:31 PM ---
I see this as a call, call, evaluate river as others suggest. The interesting discussion is whether or not to 3 bet pre. I personally think that 3 betting pre in this spot is optimal and here is why. By 3 betting you are obviously building a pot where you think you have the best hand. You will be defining opponents ranges somewhat based on whether they call or 4 bet and you have position. Opening yourself up to getting 4 bet obviously makes things tricky, but not as much as you may think. It is pretty rare for players to 4 bet anything other than AA, KK or AK here, but like rodders said, will call often with 99-JJ. I used to think it was always bad to 3 bet hands for value, if you are going to have to fold to a 4 bet, but if your 3 bet is often called by worse and his 4 bet range has you crushed, then surely it simplifies the hand. Further more, I think with the caller from mp+1 you can make this something like $1.25 pre and being 100bb deep effective, and even if you got 4 bet to say $3.50 you can safely eliminate bluffs from their range. Who is going to 4 bet bluff 1/3 effective stacks?

--- End quote ---


Excellent post .

Are you suggesting 3b fold ?

--- End quote ---


It"s certainly an option Brendan. I like to think outside the box sometimes though so I may be wrong on this. I actually had a very similar spot in the Bristol Masters last weekend where I chose to 4 bet fold QQ from utg, as I believed his 5 bet range was KK+, AK but he would call with 99-JJ and I didn"t want to play post flop oop. He showed AA, and I may have lost the minimum

--- End quote ---

3-bet/fold is actually my preferred play here. I would just call from the SB or BB though.

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