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Omaha Zoooooom hand

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AAroddersAA:

--- Quote from: Fatcatstu on January 02, 2014, 12:05:22 PM ---

--- Quote from: MintTrav on January 02, 2014, 11:59:14 AM ---
I don"t get it Stu - you"ve got nothing much.

I"m interested to know why you say this is "a really interesting hand". Is it because you have the blocker to the nut flush? The board pairing has removed that as an interest.

--- End quote ---


More because I think it is interesting to think about what hands the villain is likely to have in this situation.

Its all well and good people jsut posting "fold" or "your hand is ****" but nobody seems to think about what hands people are likely to turn up with in this spot, and the thoguht processes that people can go though to help make different decisions.

--- End quote ---

Not going to comment on the actual hand as I know the outcome but in my opinion we should be looking at what we think our opponent could have at each stage. Given that we have no real info on our opponent we can go with population tendencies here.

What is our opponent likely to have called us with preflop, this range is quite wide. Then what is he flatting us with on the flop, rather than folding or raising. How does the turn card effect that range and what has changed? What hands do you thing he flat calls with again? What does he have once the river card is down. Should we be trying to value bet/bluff the river or should we check/call or check/fold?

Finally once we have got all of this what is the right decision on the river and what do we read into his bet sizing?

Hope this helps, ignore it if it doesn"t, I usually talk waffle tbf  :)

Fatcatstu:
So, my thoughts on the hand (taken from a convo on Facebook with Rodders)

Pre flop

Im obv potting pre as i have them AA with a suit to, easy enough in these games
he flats, not too much of a shock really.

Flop

flop is not too bad, but the hh being out is a bit annoying. I have top pair and an overpair anyway, so it definitely another bet, im trying to take it down ther and then, i might actually want to bet a bit bigger in future, but if he re raises me i can get away for a bit cheaper, as i fold to any aggression

Turn

turn gives me 2 pair and avoids the FD hitting, so i am pretty confident i am ahead at this point in time. Straight draw missed too, so i need to try and take this down here and now, as i hate the river most of the time.


What am i putting my oppo on at this point in time?
straight and flush draws mainly, with possibly QQxx or mayyyyybe KKxx but mainly draws. If he hasnt got draws then he should be betting hands that beat me strongly to get me off them, as i can easily have combo hands that he wont like the look of, unless he has the combo hands himself

(there is a bit of chat going back and forth, i wont put rodders thought sin the middle, as i dont have his permission, he can give them later if he likes)

he will probably raise a strong flush draw as a semi bluff, and would have raised sets on the flop, so its probably the straight draw IMO

The River

9s looks on the face of it to be a horrible card, however a backdoor FD gets there, but i cant see that many hands with a 9 in it that he has.

i have decent showdown value with my weakish 2 pair, so i am sure checking is the right move
then he sits there for age before making a pot sized bet

he has had to summon up the courage to do it, and then waved the biggest stick he can at me in the hope that it scares me off

Paulie_D:

--- Quote from: Fatcatstu on January 02, 2014, 11:57:04 AM ---

OK, so any thoughts on what his hand may be Paulie?
Very interested in your deeper thoughts on this, as you are a good PLO player, i will post up some of the discussion I had on facebook for folks to have a look at.

--- End quote ---


I don"t play Zoom...or online much at all but I have no history on this guy....and without some feel for whether he"s a calling station with a bare flush or straight draw it"s hard to assign a meaningful range.

He may have a bare nine for all you know but you are still beaten but pretty much anything other than a naked bluff.

MintTrav:
Fold. Your hand is ****.

AMRN:
I kind of agree with most of your thinking Stu. You have to c-bet in this spot, and the flop is perfectly good to c-bet.  Once  called, you can narrow his range down a little, and I think it"s fairly safe to exclude sets given his lack of aggro with a FD on board.  The turn is a good card for you although it actually does little to improve your hand vs his range - ie if he had top two pair, he was and is still ahead.... if he had one pair, you were already ahead.

The river is as bad is it could be, pairing the board and putting a flush out there (the flush should be irrelevant given the paired board plus your NF blocker, but this is 0.02/0.05 zoom, and anything goes at times!)........... when you check the river scare card, he has a great spot to bluff if he has missed his own draws.  Yes, the river is reasonably likely to have put him in front, however if he is a decent player, it"s also the abso-perfect bluff card (I would pot in his spot every time on that river when checked to me).

Whilst I agree that this is probably a fold, I can see merits for calling - you have a bluff-catching hand.  

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