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Showing Cards 2: Do you show??

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mrmacacan:
I think at casino"s use most of rules are the same then they alter
a few to make them house rules.
Its correct what you say about knowing the rules before hand.
At my game any rules that are lets say house rules, I will inform any new players of them.
Like the one about showing a card or cards to anyone then the hand is dead, others are a if a player is not sat at the table when the first card is dealt they are folded, the TD"s decision is final, his decision will be in his opinion the fairest
and for the best of the game.

I have played in other places (pubs) were they do not adhere to the rules, all this does is causes loads of arguments.
Whatever the rules are the TD must follow them when ever possible and be consistent.


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HaworthBantam:

--- Quote from: RioRodent on August 06, 2008, 11:43:25 AM ---

--- Quote from: jizzemm on August 06, 2008, 11:23:12 AM ---

--- Quote from: RioRodent on August 06, 2008, 09:47:35 AM ---

--- Quote from: mrmacacan on August 06, 2008, 08:08:24 AM ---
My home tourneys, any player showing any card then his/her hand is dead. 

--- End quote ---


This is not a "correct" rule... in most cardrooms and major tournaments the hand would not be called dead. Intentionally showing cards, while action remains in a hand, is not allowed and should be dealt with by means of a warning and then whatever penalty system has been pre-arranged for repeat offences.

--- End quote ---


This rule I am still confused about..

Senario.. £30 D/C freezeout.. I make a raise with 99, and all folded round to BB, who dwels then pushes her stack in.. I am heads up in the hand and have no read on this person as she has only just joined the table 2 hands earlier, both folds.. Anyway, I am thinking I fancy racing with AK, AQ, but not sure if she has an overpair, so without putting my cards down, I flip the 99 round, to show her, straight away I know she has AK, AQ ish, and decide that I am going to call, BUT, she mucks her cards and the dealer passes her the pot..

I protest, saying I have not folded, but TD says that Gala Rules are hand is dead... ??

Now the reason I did this was, once it was done to me, I did the same thing, but the hand stood, and I was of the opinion it should have been made dead. I asked the question on blonde and all answers said the hand is not dead, so thought these were the rules..

My main thing with situations like this is

a) Do each casino have a set of rules that you can read before you start the game?
b) Why is there no standard set of rules imposed by lets say someone like the GC?

imo, TD"s go by their own rules in things like this, and you will never know what the rule is until something like this happens which may be to late anyway..



--- End quote ---


a) Yes they do... or should do!
b) Still one of life"s great mysteries... right up there alonside - "Why do toasters always have a setting that burns the toast to a horrible crisp that no one would ever eat?"

If only all cardrooms / tournament organisers would use the Tournament Directors Association rules, the world would be a much better place...

Rule 31. Exposing Cards - A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand.  The penalty will begin at the end of the hand.

Full rules available here - http://www.pokertda.com/rules.pdf

--- End quote ---


This is one of those scenarios where there should be one ruling wherever you play.

Somebody will put me right if I"m wrong, but I believe your hand is dead if you show in the WSOP, but if you do the same thing in the WPT everything is hunkydory.

I have to admit that I prefer the dead hand rule, and enforce it in the tournies that I organise - and it is written clearly in my rules.

mrmacacan:
I think I should explain why I use these rules.


A, Any cards shown your hand is dead.

If the rule is there that you are not allowed to show anybody your cards and you do, is that not blatantly cheating ?.
So what would be a fair punishment ?.
If a player gained advantage by doing it and won a pot of lets say 60k chips
then another won a pot of 400 chips how could you differ the punishment ?
So IMO the easiest way to rule it is make the hand dead.
If all players know the rule there should never be a problem.

B, A player not in their seat when the first card is dealt.

Some casino"s and card rooms have it as when your first card is dealt.
IMO this gives other players an advantage, seat 10 as longer to get back to the table than seat 1.
It also opens the door for arguments.

I use both these rules, all the players know them and I never have any problems.

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RioRodent:
As poker players, I"m sure we have all asked the question, "Why is there not just one set of rules?" (I guess Tournaments and Cash games need their own variations?)

We have a body of well respected, top tournament directors putting their efforts into the Tournament Directors Association, in an attempt to bring about standarised rule for tournament play. Their (TDA) rules are used at the WSOP (and I assume WSOPE), the WPT and I believe the EPT, the APT, the APPT and the LAPT.

Historically, I believe there were some conflicts with UK Gaming Comission rules, but since the changes, last September, I don"t think there is any reason why TDA rules could not be adopted in the UK.

I think everyone who would like to see one set of rules used everywhere should lobby their local casino / home game organiser and ask why they don"t use TDA rules.

I have asked the question at a couple of places and essentially get the same reply... "Well, the regulars are happy with things the way they are."

Maybe the answer is for more people to ask for change... if we really do wan"t one rule book?

kinboshi:
This is one of the things that APAT is striving for - a common rulebook.

You play any sport or game for money, and there are pretty much standardised rules across the board.  Not so with poker.

The rule I find amusing is that in many card rooms you can say what you want about your hand when you"re heads up - as long as you don"t disclose what it actually is.  So you can lie, you can tell half-truths, but you cannot actually say what your hand is.

I still don"t know of any justification as to why this is a good rule.  

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