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Stop and go versus pre-flop shove

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WarBwastardo:
I"ve heard that some people get so low in tournaments sometimes that they"re reduced to shoving the remainder of their stack in with practically any two cards.  I"ve never been in this situation of course...but anyway, should it happen to me one day what factors determine whether you shove it all in pre-flop or use the stop and go move?

Without a specific scenario to work from that"s a fairly vague question, but vague is this season"s black so do your best.    

AMRN:
I tend to favour Stop And Go if I"m in the blinds with a pocket pair and am fairly short stacked (less than say 15 BBs), and a big stack makes a standard open raise from mid position.

My thoughts are that if I re-raise from the BB preflop, he is probably pot committed (or will consider that he is getting value with a maximum loss factor equiv to my stack so may gamble with overcards knowing he"s behind).

Let"s say I have 88 and face this mid position re-raise. If he has 99+ or AK/AQ he is probably autocalling if I shove preflop...... however if I flat call preflop, then open shove whatever comes on the flop, he will find it very hard to call if he has 99+ and there is an overcard on the board, or if he has AK and has missed the flop.  Of course an A or a K may be destined for the turn of the river, and by playing the Stop And Go, I have potentially limited his opportunity to three cards instead of five.

If an A comes on the flop and my shove is called my AK, well c"est la vie - this would have happened if I"d re-raised all in preflop anyway. Just have to be prepared to follow through and shove when the ugly flop comes knowing that he will miss it more than he hits it, so +EV.

LongshanksED:
pretty much same thoughts as above

if im down to less than 10bb"s i might shove pre flop but when that shortstacked i reckon you"ll get the call anyway from the raiser

noble1:

--- Quote from: LongshanksED on December 29, 2008, 11:12:51 AM ---
pretty much same thoughts as above

if im down to less than 10bb"s i might shove pre flop but when that shortstacked i reckon you"ll get the call anyway from the raiser


--- End quote ---


correct LongshanksED , especially if you try this move on experienced players who know the moves.
Also if you read a large stack raising with a tight range and you dont fancy a gamble then folding is the best option,if i had a 15bb stack i"d look to re-steal shove from the 20 to 30bb stacks or from some weak types [depends on reads]
You can use the go+go as i call it like how AMRN has described but it is more effective when your stack is 25bb+ and you re-raise pre , villian calls then you shove all in on flop.

kinboshi:
My vague thoughts are as follows.

It depends (added for additional vagueness).  But I will tend to shove pre if I think that I can get the others to fold.  So in effect, I"m treating my hand as a bluff and 74o is as good as AQ here.  If I don"t think I have fold equity, and my shove is going to get called in at least one spot, then I want to be live or be ahead. 

A stop-n-go works well against weaker players who will fold if they miss the flop.  Of course, if they hit - you"re buggered, but that won"t happen most of the time.

My stack size and the stack size of the others is key here imo.

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